TonytheTiger Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 You may be onto something Roundguy, I'll try to get Daniel Horner signed on with CZ and us longtime CZ fans will suddenly be the new cool crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundguy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 From my understanding and i may have been told wrong but in europe EAA and CZ are dominate over the 2011? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 That sounds about right. No big surprise I guess, European guns are big in Europe, US guns are big in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 I ROed at FN this year and I saw a cts, cts lsb, ts, sp-01 shadow, sp-01, and a couple of 75's. I shot the match with my 9mm TS with a newly added c-more. I saw 4 cz's counting mine at my local 3 gun last month. I guess a lot of people haven't realized that taking a standard sp-01 removing the firing pin block, converting to single action only and getting some mag extensions is an inexpensive way to get a quality 3 gun pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 You may be onto something Roundguy, I'll try to get Daniel Horner signed on with CZ and us longtime CZ fans will suddenly be the new cool crowd. We already are the cool crowd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 No we're not, a 2011 guy told me so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 And good luck with the 75 in 3 gun, let us know how it goes. And are you planning on modifying it to catch up to the no compromise guys or leaving it alone and putting a hurt on the entry level pistol guys? Thanks! Will report back after I do. I have a Phoenix Trinity frame set aside for a 3 gun/Steel Challenge 2011 at some point. Honestly I will be keeping my 75 IPSC production legal which means all CZ parts down the the springs. Just a CZ UB comp hammer, springs, and sights. Either way, as Mr. Kelly demonstrates you don't need to spend a ton of money to have a great 3 gun pistol. I've placed well in outlaw steel matches with my carry G17 (heavy trigger/night sights), and I wouldn't consider that to be an ideal competition gun but you can do a lot with a gun that just works and practice. On that note, I would sell the 75 pre B and get a P09 if I wasn't in CA. Mike- where are you finding an Edge for $1600? Local gunshop sells the CZ for $1350, CZs list is over 1300 but street prices in other areas may be less. There have been several unfired edges on the classifieds in the last year for around $1600- but I was going of what a CZ would cost me vs an edge. I've purchased two excellent Limited STIs for $1350 or less on the classifieds here so the price differential isn't even necessarily an issue. But as stated an STI is quite a bit cheaper than the rest of a "no compromise" 3 gun set up. MikeRush, whatever for you consider a heavy Edge to weight? Stock with most common options looks to be around 39. My TS is about 41. I have considered removing some weight from the slide and have removed some from the frame but not that much. 37.6 oz per STI's website, although you are right in that people add large magwells that would bump the weight up a bit. Per CZ UB site the TS is 1270 g, which is approximately 44.8 oz. That is with a relatively small magwell and wood grips. So, almost a half pound over the Edge. Its nearly pound and a quarter heavier than a G34, which doesn't exactly have thunderous recoil due to its light weight. 9 minor just doesn't kick that much. Many 2011 guys are going to metal grips now, which would give the gun a total weight similar to the TS- but that is for major. Either way, CZ makes a fine assortment of pistols that could all do a great job as 3 gun pistols. Some guys like the weight as it allows you to be sloppy with your second shot on paper. A TS that you practice with will produce higher scores than a full race 2011 that you don't. If I had a TS 9mm and was going to shoot it in 3 gun I would do this to it, without the barrel holes of course: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=201948&p=2241053 I'd do that- but since I have a choice, I'll personally stick with my 34 oz 75 or finish a 2011- a nice SDC 5", bushing barrel gun. Around 33-34 oz. I personally was shocked to find out that I shoot the light guns faster and more accurately due to improved precision and transition speed. If the P09 was an option for me I would get one for PD and 3 gun. Plenty of great CZs and practicing with the one you have or the one you want will get you much further than spending more dollars. Again, CZ doesn't really market to three gunners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 So you are comparing gun store/msrp prices to second hand guns on a forum, now that price difference makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 OP was asking why more people choose STIs instead of CZs for 3 gun. Only point I was making is that for someone buying a no compromise rig the price difference probably wouldn't be a dealbreaker, but rather selection would be based on preference (which as you know, some people prefer the CZs and don't see them as a budget option).The places I checked (Oak Hill, Ky Gun Co, CZ Custom, etc) didn't have them in stock anyway. CZC lists them for $1189 when they have them. I can call shooters connection and have an STI on my way for $1860, vs $1350 for the TS. Either way the point is if you are spending $2500 for a JP, 1k + for an optic, and 2k for a race ready Benelli- call the difference $700 if you are using the price of a gun that isn't in stock, or $500 if it is- it doesn't impact the overall budget that much. The used guns I listed were only to suggest that if someone is willing to search for it (like finding a 9mm TS in stock) there are deals to be had if the budget is a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundguy Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 To back MikeR i purchased my Edge on Uspsa classified for $1300 and spent $130 for the EGW lighting trig/hammer kit and it runs like a champ for 1400 does it look brand new no does it run flawless yes. I am looking for a CZ currently to try out and see if i like it better. My main reason is mags are cheap for the cz and they seem to run forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I am not disagreeing with the fact that someone looking for No compromises is going to spend whatever to get the best gun in their mind. I was just wondering where you got the $600 price difference from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 So moral of the story is? If the higher end CZ's might not ever get in with the all out balls out guys, the lower end CZ's could do just fine against the plastics if CZ put even a little effort into marketing them as such and maybe got themselves a well known face to put on said marketing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 So moral of the story is? If the higher end CZ's might not ever get in with the all out balls out guys, the lower end CZ's could do just fine against the plastics if CZ put even a little effort into marketing them as such and maybe got themselves a well known face to put on said marketing? I don't disagree with this, but...... You can't sell what isn't on the shelf. If these models were readily available at dealers and you could order them up anytime (as you can with the 2011 variants) I suspect you would see more in use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 Good point. Seems like a lot of CZ guys spend as much time hunting down specific models as they do shooting them. Although even the readily available sub $650 guns are always absent at the LGS's around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If I were buying a CZ for 3 gun it would be a P09. If I were CZ, I would market the P09 to 3 gunners... The 75s take messing with followers and springs to get the mag capacity up to 23, TS makes for a very heavy minor gun... YMMV. I'm going to try the 75 pre B in 3 gun after I sort out mag extensions. P09 is closer in weight and features to the M&P, Glock, FNS. How are you getting 23 rounds and still staying in the 140mm limit? I was looking at extensions for my SP-01 and the short extension only adds 2 to the 18 round mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If I were buying a CZ for 3 gun it would be a P09. If I were CZ, I would market the P09 to 3 gunners... The 75s take messing with followers and springs to get the mag capacity up to 23, TS makes for a very heavy minor gun... YMMV. I'm going to try the 75 pre B in 3 gun after I sort out mag extensions. P09 is closer in weight and features to the M&P, Glock, FNS. How are you getting 23 rounds and still staying in the 140mm limit? I was looking at extensions for my SP-01 and the short extension only adds 2 to the 18 round mags. You need the new CZC followers and springs to get full capacity out of these mags. The basepads alone won't help that much. I am easily at 23 in TS and 22 in the 75 (18 round mags plus extensions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Just to make sure, you are using the short extension for the 18rd mags, correct? That's pretty decent that the spring and follower add 2 rounds themselves. Does it hold the slide back on the last round? Oddly enough, without czc followers/springs, I get 23 in my TS mags with czc extensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I have 3 set up like this. One locks the slide back, the other two do not. I haven't taken the time yet to diagnose why. I have measured them in the gauge to ensure they were legal length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If I were buying a CZ for 3 gun it would be a P09. If I were CZ, I would market the P09 to 3 gunners... The 75s take messing with followers and springs to get the mag capacity up to 23, TS makes for a very heavy minor gun... YMMV. I'm going to try the 75 pre B in 3 gun after I sort out mag extensions. P09 is closer in weight and features to the M&P, Glock, FNS. How are you getting 23 rounds and still staying in the 140mm limit? I was looking at extensions for my SP-01 and the short extension only adds 2 to the 18 round mags. That was why I was saying it would take springs and followers. The CZ follower design is very tall combined with the spring takes up a fair amount of space. I have a good number of standard capacity mags but haven't started down the road of spring/follower/base pad tuning. Maybe CZC could sell it as a kit? With a Glock you can slap on a TTI base pad or a Arredondo pad and spring kit and call it good. That is somewhere the aftermarket might help. If I was a new three gunner with a 75 or SP01 and I could call someone up and order a kit for my mags, or complete mags that fit the gauge, hold 23, and work that would be help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paramajic4 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I just upgraded to a SP 01 Accu-shadow from a Glock 17L for 3-gun. What a difference! Much more accurate and the weight difference is a bonus, transitioning between targets is not a problem and so far the gun has been flawless using handloads. The biggest problem I have and I believe detracts from CZ in 3 gun is the lack of aftermarket support and the availability. Holster selection sucks and figuring out magazine extensions can be confusing. So far, very happy I switched. As for the cost between a STI and a CZ, $1450 for the CZ and approx. $2000 to buy the STI plus another $500 to actually get it to run right (that from several STI shooters I know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) The holster thing is what I am running into now. I want a Kydex holster with retention for a TS/CM but those dont exist. I will probably end up getting a Safariland 014 or some other race holster with a lock. Edited November 4, 2014 by jon49erfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Bam Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I started with my CZ SP-01 Shadow Custom with 3GUN using extend mag pads for 23RDs. $1500+ I have switch to CZ P-09 with mods from CGW and using CZC extend mag pads for 23RDs. The felt recoil is better in my opinion, and i like a lighter gun. total parts and gun about $775.00. accuracy is very good. BGC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have a BT DOH holster on order, mostly because CZC had it and it was the first reasonable looking TS holster that could be had left handed that I could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 The holster thing is what I am running into now. I want a Kydex holster with retention for a TS/CM but those dont exist. I will probably end up getting a Safariland 014 or some other race holster with a lock. I used a Bladetech for my TS for years, going through a few Ironman, Blue Ridge and other matches without ever having any retention issues, so I wouldnt worry about that at all. If Bladetech made a holster I could use for my Czechmates, I'd drop my Open race holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Well that's good to hear. I have a blade tech for it now but always worried about it when running so id put my hand over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now