openclassterror Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 My 10 year old son is starting Action Pistol matches in preparation for 3gun as he gets older. I have him shooting my M&P Pro backup gun. He is starting to develop a flinch from the recoil. His hands are kind of small, and I can see his shooting dropping off from fatigue on the last stage or two of every match. My question is this- I want to run as light of loads as possible in this pistol so recoil isn't an issue. Should I cut the flat-wound factory spring, or is there an aftermarket way to reduce recoil spring tension? How low velocity can I go, and consequently how light on the spring, before failure to go into battery becomes an issue. Secondary benefit will be reduced effort to manually cycle the slide, as he has to throw his whole body into the effort at the LAMR signal. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 11 pounds is iffy and I would not want my 12 year old running that. He runs a 13 pound spring on a factory rod and 115 grain bullets powered by E3 at 126 PF. It is the softest shooting PF legal load I have been able to come up with. That set-up will run down to about 105 PF 100% and I have some of those for Steel Challenge. The heavier bullets were just running dirtier and less accurate due to less sealing of the case to the chamber. I would not clip coils on the factory spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Our local club does not have a minimum PF for juniors. One of the woman shooters uses a .380 for fun not score, and it knocks the poppers over. They are set pretty light. You are getting a 105 PF to run with a 13 lb spring? Source for the spring? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 ISMI springs. Yes, 105 PF runs with the 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonTBarrett Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Check out Speed Shooter Specialties for the spring. I run a 13lb in my 9Pro and it works great. For a while I ran 125gr handloads moving about 970fps for my local non-sanctioned match and the gun cycled great and shot very soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avedis Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 springs here: http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=103_91_238 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horseman Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I may have the only M&P that will not run on light ISMI springs. However, it has ran 6K or more without fail with a 11lb Wolf spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 11 pounds is iffy and I would not want my 12 year old running that. He runs a 13 pound spring on a factory rod and 115 grain bullets powered by E3 at 126 PF. It is the softest shooting PF legal load I have been able to come up with. That set-up will run down to about 105 PF 100% and I have some of those for Steel Challenge. The heavier bullets were just running dirtier and less accurate due to less sealing of the case to the chamber. I would not clip coils on the factory spring. What charge range do you find is decent with 115 grain projectiles? Ive been running 147's with 3.2g of E3 for a while now. Not much data out there for E3 so Im curious where you started. I wouldnt cut the factory spring. With the above load I mentioned my gun seems to be fine with both 11 and 13lb springs, but im going to stick with the 13 because it makes me feel safer as far as reliability goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 What charge range do you find is decent with 115 grain projectiles? Ive been running 147's with 3.2g of E3 for a while now. Not much data out there for E3 so Im curious where you started. Lots of load data for e3 in the 9mm reloading sub-forum. I've posted several chrono runs. Most of mine are for making minor. I'm going to experiment with some light steel loads next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therealkoop Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Found quite a few threads. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaSeeker Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 My daughter had a similar problem. I switched her to a steel gun (tanfoglio match), running 9 mm 147gr 3.4gr titegroup. You can run down to 3.2gr maybe even 3gr if PF is not an issue. Very soft. The other element is proper arm technique. Most kids tend to tuck their elbows and use too much strength fighting muzzle flip by locking their arms. If your boy keeps his elbows up, recoil will drive be the gun rearward and let him save some strength. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 His form starts out quite good at the beginning of each match/ practice session, but deteriorates as he wears out. By the end of a 6 hour match he is actually getting some limp-wrist FTFs. Keep in mind that at the age of 10 he just sprouted to 5'4" (tallest kid in elementary school by a bit) but only weighs 95 lbs. He is a beanpole with long arms, and just holding the gun up is work after a while. Luckily I have quite a bit of Titegroup. I will try the loads suggested as soon as my springs arrive. I noticed on Midway, the reviews of the 11lb spring included one guy saying the gun wouldn't go into battery a lot of the time, so the 13lb limit mentioned here seems to be common. Thanks for all the help guys! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMark Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I agree with Alphaseeker go with the 147gr less snap than lighter bullets. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openclassterror Posted October 21, 2014 Author Share Posted October 21, 2014 11 and 13# Springs and 140mm extended mag base pads on the way. Speed Shooter's Specialties website is easy to navigate and order from. Thanks for the help guys, will update on the load when toys get here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 When I was setting my wifes M&P Pro 9 up I could not get it to run with a light flat spring. Well--it would run, but I could just shake it and knock it out of battery. Went with a Wolff guide rod and round wire spring. It will lock up and run great with a 12 lb, although she actually prefers the 14 lb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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