caz41 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I agree on the checking in the start box. Have the on deck shooter do it at the preload table. Saw one guy unloading for the "audit" then drops some of the ammo into the mud trying to load it back up. If that don't mind "fork" you out of your stage plan I don't know what does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinWolv Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Did I miss where a sponsor list is posted? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I did notice that no-one was saying anything good or bad until the "no love" comments started. I'll bet that if that hadn't come up there would have been a nice little discussion on the match it's self. I think the problem is compounded by nothing posted here and very little posted there causing angst for those wanting info and those pointing out there isn't much. From what I am gathering, it is best to become friends with Tenille and Charles, and that way get updated. We have sent out many updates regarding this match, I am a big believer of one on one communication...our emails and phone numbers are public....I welcome questions and concerns ... One of MANY updates: Hello Shooters! The match is quickly approaching and we have a few more updates. First - THE NEW STUFF – ALL SHOOTERS AND SPECTATORS must sign a waiver upon entering the park. Waivers for the park and the shooting club have been attached. Please print a copy and bring it with you. You will not be permitted on the range without all 3 of these forms. The range is in a park that has a strict 15 mph speed limit. Out of courtesy to the park, the shooting club, and the rangers we ask that you follow the speed limit. Failure to observe the speed limit could result in disastrous consequences (read “Match DQ”) for not obeying the rules of the range. Just a heads up that if you plug in the address of the range, many GPS systems will try to take you 7 miles west of Marble Falls. The range is actually 7 miles East of Marble Falls. A map and driving directions can be found at this link RANGE DIRECTIONS. The range website is Copperheadclub.com Food will be available on the range compliments of Foodapalooza. Menu and pricing options will follow. ROUND COUNT – has been upped a little -plan on 140 Pistol, 140 Rifle, 15 Slugs, and 100 Shot. Course descriptions will not be released prior to the event. You can safely assume there will be one long shotgun stage. Slings will not be required for this event. SHOOTING SCHEDULE AND SQUAD MATRIX have been attached to this email. SIDE MATCHES – There are a number of great side matches going on during the event! More information will follow. OLD STUFF – The match is a two day format, October 11th-12th with awards immediately following the completion of shooting on Sunday. The range is COMPLETELY CLOSED until Friday at the specified time, which is 2:00 PM. Squads 1-8 will shoot AM on Sat and PM on Sunday. Squads 9-14 will shoot the opposite schedule. HOST HOTEL The Hampton Inn will be our host hotel for this event. This hotel is approximately 15 minutes from the range. They have guaranteed us a rate of $139 for weekdays $169 Weekends. Please ask for 3-Gun Nation in order to receive this rate. This property serves a hot breakfast daily. Their complete contact information is listed below Hampton Inn on the Lake 704 First St. Marble Falls, Texas 78654 830-798-1895 http://www.marblefallshotel.com/ Copperhead Creek Shooting Club For those of you who have not attended an event at this location, you will be able to drive to most of the bays. You are more than welcome to bring your own ATV for use. The address for the range, as well as web-site, is listed below. Copperhead Creek Shooting Club 7030 E. FM 143 Marble Falls, Texas 78654 www.copperheadclub.com Copperhead Creek Shooting Club also has several large bunkhouses that will sleep 8 people each. There is one large bathhouse with these. These are brand new facilities that just opened on July 4th! I believe the cost is around $100 per night per bunkhouse. Linens and bedding are not provided. I can send pictures if you are interested. Reservations for these accommodations must be made directly through the range. Please call Thomas at 830-265-4950 to make reservations. 3-GUN NATION GEAR 3-Gun Nation Regional Competitors can benefit from a 25% discount on all soft goods and 10% off all hard goods in the 3-Gun Nation E-Store. Each has a promo code at check out. Soft Goods: 3GNREGIONAL25; Hard Goods: 3GNREGIONAL10. Visit www.3GunNationestore.com to take advantage. Respectfully, The 3-Gun Nation Team Charles Sole Charles@3gunnation.com 919-201-7900 Tennille Chidester Tennille@3gunnation.com 208-447-6553 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) My two cents: The stages were fun. Got a solid mix of everything. The schedule was rough, but that is nobody's fault.....just bad timing for rain to come through. Otherwise, I was really excited for the 1/2-day format. The ROs/MD that I saw were trying to be fair and trying to give equal playing field it appeared. It is a small thing but when the MD comes around to personally explain why/how the schedule is getting goofy, that is appreciated. They were giving warnings about things to watch out for, be careful about, etc. Personally I didn't see attitudes, but they looked tired and had to be after RO'ing a schedule like that. So, nice job. Rule 5.5 or whatever it is about getting a match DQ for putting a gun down on a table on stage2 is sad. I don't like it; it comes across as petty. Putting a gun down in a safe manner, facing downrange shouldn't get you booted from a match. If you want to make it a stiff procedural for not following the stage description/rule, that would make some sense. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to send someone home for tabling a gun safely when a stage later a guy can bounce a shotgun out of a dump barrel and it lands pointed back uprange (albeit empty but how am I supposed to know that?), argue that the barrel isn't staked acceptably despite it not tipping over, and then gets a reshoot. I don't blame the guy for debating the barrel's stability or am questioning his character, but the penalties in this case are not just. I've seen a barrel that wasn't weighted well at all fall over from a rifle put in with 2X more care than that shotgun was and the rifle guy got sent home. So, the lesson here is that it is ok to throw a shotgun around, but laying a pistol down facing uprange is a no-no (and the stage course doesn't even move uprange of the pistol)? 10rd mag tube audit.........I don't have a problem with it. Although I think it is rough to make a guy unload on the line, then load back up, and get back in the moment so to speak. Obviously cheating is the target here........so Kurt's suggestion is pretty clean way to do it without messing up the shooting order.......that way, you aren't icing some guy on the line. Good facility. Seemed like the traffic control and room for parking, etc. worked out well enough. The sponsors stepped up huge. One engaged a target after the marker stating where it had to be engaged from.This one seemed like it could have been a stiff stage procedural also. Stage7. Why a match DQ on it? Was the shot at that last right steel unsafe? The distance was well over 10 yards, so did it angle somewhere unsafe? I didn't get a chance to check the angle/background of that target from the last dump barrel. My two cents: The stages were fun. Got a solid mix of everything. The schedule was rough, but that is nobody's fault.....just bad timing for rain to come through. Otherwise, I was really excited for the 1/2-day format. The ROs/MD that I saw were trying to be fair and trying to give equal playing field it appeared. It is a small thing but when the MD comes around to personally explain why/how the schedule is getting goofy, that is appreciated. They were giving warnings about things to watch out for, be careful about, etc. Personally I didn't see attitudes, but they looked tired and had to be after RO'ing a schedule like that. So, nice job. Rule 5.5 or whatever it is about getting a match DQ for putting a gun down on a table on stage2 is sad. I don't like it; it comes across as petty. Putting a gun down in a safe manner, facing downrange shouldn't get you booted from a match. If you want to make it a stiff procedural for not following the stage description/rule, that would make some sense. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to send someone home for tabling a gun safely when a stage later a guy can bounce a shotgun out of a dump barrel and it lands pointed back uprange (albeit empty but how am I supposed to know that?), argue that the barrel isn't staked acceptably despite it not tipping over, and then gets a reshoot. I don't blame the guy for debating the barrel's stability or am questioning his character, but the penalties in this case are not just. I've seen a barrel that wasn't weighted well at all fall over from a rifle put in with 2X more care than that shotgun was and the rifle guy got sent home. So, the lesson here is that it is ok to throw a shotgun around, but laying a pistol down facing uprange is a no-no (and the stage course doesn't even move uprange of the pistol)? 10rd mag tube audit.........I don't have a problem with it. Although I think it is rough to make a guy unload on the line, then load back up, and get back in the moment so to speak. Obviously cheating is the target here........so Kurt's suggestion is pretty clean way to do it without messing up the shooting order.......that way, you aren't icing some guy on the line. Good facility. Seemed like the traffic control and room for parking, etc. worked out well enough. The sponsors stepped up huge. One engaged a target after the marker stating where it had to be engaged from.This one seemed like it could have been a stiff stage procedural also. Stage7. Why a match DQ on it? Was the shot at that last right steel unsafe? The distance was well over 10 yards, so did it angle somewhere unsafe? I didn't get a chance to check the angle/background of that target from the last dump barrel. The green line served as a warning..an attempt to prevent a DQ...and in that case it was required by the range. This is a by product of giving competitors a choice of firearm....not an attempt to DQ someone. Natural terrain set up is tricky and lines and boxes are used to prevent a competitor from shooting in the wrong direction. Edited October 14, 2014 by csole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Did I miss where a sponsor list is posted? Thanks. http://3gunnation.com/sponsors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Lots of DQ'd shooters. Weather related? Looking at scores from other major matches regrading DQs...the SW regional appears to be in the norm? https://practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=C459C4C1-5321-4AA9-9151-A1E7C8C0C411&page=matchCombined https://practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=a06b59df-33c3-4354-8214-c6621aa8711b&page=matchCombined https://practiscore.com/results.php?uuid=9b90b3de-88a4-4559-b859-eed3974ccb50&page=matchCombined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 15% is hardly in the norm. 4-8% is about normal. If you have more than 8% it is worth taking a hard look at all the contributing factors. There are certainly flukes here and there, but 15% is certainly very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Everyone.......something I've found to be constructive as of late. Start a one on one dialogue with the MD from the match about areas where you think there could be improvements made, voice your concerns and offer suggestions as to how things might be fixed. I've found Mr. Sole to be responsive and encouraging about receiving concerns and possible solutions/ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Why the rush to blame the match for the actions of the shooters? I am about the biggest 3GN hater out there but I find myself wanting to support and defend this match and I was not even there! As long as all of the DQ's where for listed and or notified reasons, no matter how petty they seem they are justified and should be supported. If the rule is on the books and or discussed at the shooters meeting then it would be unfair to those that comply with the rule to allow others to break it without consequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaZeNuTZ33 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Why the rush to blame the match for the actions of the shooters? I am about the biggest 3GN hater out there but I find myself wanting to support and defend this match and I was not even there! As long as all of the DQ's where for listed and or notified reasons, no matter how petty they seem they are justified and should be supported. If the rule is on the books and or discussed at the shooters meeting then it would be unfair to those that comply with the rule to allow others to break it without consequence. I'm a reformed 3GN hater.....attend a regional and you'll see why. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Everyone.......something I've found to be constructive as of late. Start a one on one dialogue with the MD from the match about areas where you think there could be improvements made, voice your concerns and offer suggestions as to how things might be fixed. I've found Mr. Sole to be responsive and encouraging about receiving concerns and possible solutions/ideas. Thanks for the kind words....I will always consider CONSTRUCTIVE input...that is how we build better widgets. All we are trying to do is to grow the game of 3gun. On the flight back home I realized all 2014 the majors for me are complete. It was a landmark season! With the events we have held at Tarheel3gun and 3 Gun Nation I have had the awesome pleasure to be with over 3,500 folks that love this sport we call 3 gun...that tells me that this game has a long future ...it is what fuels me to keep moving forward. I hope to see ya on the range next year...looks like we will have SIX 3gunnation regionals in 2015....I can not wait! I don't get on the forums often.. Email or call with your thoughts Charles@3gunnation.com 9192017990 See ya on the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Why the rush to blame the match for the actions of the shooters? If you saw my post in that light, I apologize and that was not my intent. I have since heard from 2 shooters who shot the match, one who was DQ'd, as well as Charles. I gave Charles some additional information that he requested. Safety is something I always look at. I have certainly read threads about match mismanagement and felt a post was not warranted, but anytime we can improve safety, something we should all be wanting. There are norms for errors, including shooting DQs, that can be evaluated, and I have had to do that work in a professional setting. If you were to look at accident rates, for simple tasks, which most things can be labeled as, you will see that new tasks, and those which have become monotonous, are those with spikes in accident rates. The job of MDs RMs and stage designers is to endeavor to create challenges which press the experienced shooters while not introducing new tasks to novice shooters which have the potential to create undue risk related to the 4 laws of gun safety. As I have continually said, match rules are component of a layered safety approach. Staff, stage design, target placement, competitor safety competence (do not read that as skill level) mental and physical condition and the 4 laws of gun safety are also layers. All I did was answer Charles question directly, 15% is high and the factors should be evaluated. There are lots of factors and based on the message Charles sent to me, it is clear he has considered some and I am sure he will consider the additional factors I have mentioned here and in my note back to him. I try not to criticize without offering a solution. There are some MDs who won't take constructive criticism, and I have since stopped offering it and won't shoot or sponsor their matches. Charles is not one of them, so don't create drama where there is none. Edited October 14, 2014 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Great Match as far as I'm concerned, I finished, didn't DQ, and received about $800 off the prize table. I did have some grumbling about scheduling after the rain delay but WoW, what a nightmare! Glad I didn’t have to make those decisions. I received the first email from Tennille at 3AM Saturday so the communication from the match staff was right on. Overall the match staff did a great job getting everyone through. As far as the DQ’s, we had two on our squad late on the 2nd day, one for breaking 180 on stage 7 and a heart breaker on stage 8 when a shell got stuck on a lifter without the safety on, both very legate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acespeedy Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'd like to thank the staff and everyone else that helped put on such a great match. I really think that a lot of times the Ro's make or break a match, and I will say that each one that I encountered was professional and extremely helpful. The stages were straight forward and provided a lot options and the range facilities/bays were awesome. One thing I would like to see changed is the tube audit being conducted in the start box. I am all for conducting the inspection but I think it would be just as effective being done before stepping into the box. Maybe have everyone preload the guns after stage brief, stage them at the preload table/rack, and just randomly choose two shotguns off the preloaded table/rack? If the shooter has to handle/check his/her shotgun they can ask Ro and then it can be subject to a re-inspection if need be. I can't wait to shoot the match next year, just hope I can register in time. Thanks again, JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Donald Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 This was a great match, and I was very impressed on all the sponsors stepping up big time. Was very impressed with all the guns to be awarded Sunday and the rest of the prize table was top notch. I know Saturday was a bit of a bust starting so late because of all the rain, but the entire 3 Gun Nation crew stepped up big time to get us all through shooting!! Many other matches would have fallen apart under such conditions. The only change I would have made is on stage 4 have the shotguns on the rack (not being used) setting to the side instead of on the table and have 1 extra R.O. prep the shooter loading up. Would have help prevent some DQ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csole Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'd like to thank the staff and everyone else that helped put on such a great match. I really think that a lot of times the Ro's make or break a match, and I will say that each one that I encountered was professional and extremely helpful. The stages were straight forward and provided a lot options and the range facilities/bays were awesome. One thing I would like to see changed is the tube audit being conducted in the start box. I am all for conducting the inspection but I think it would be just as effective being done before stepping into the box. Maybe have everyone preload the guns after stage brief, stage them at the preload table/rack, and just randomly choose two shotguns off the preloaded table/rack? If the shooter has to handle/check his/her shotgun they can ask Ro and then it can be subject to a re-inspection if need be. I can't wait to shoot the match next year, just hope I can register in time. Thanks again, JG This is something you will see next year...great suggestion (without emotion and un-needed drama)...keep this type of suggestions rolling!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Just out of curiosity, has anyone posted video of the long shotgun stage? At 42 rds it sounded like a hoot. Bill Edited October 18, 2014 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Donald Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Just out of curiosity, has anyone posted video of the long shotgun stage? At 42 rds it sounded like a hoot. Bill Check youtube, austinwolv on here usually posts him shooting the stages. I heard today a couple other guys have posted some of the stages from the 3GNRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I was DQed..did not like it at all! However it was my fault, discarded a pistol and the safety came off. We were warned at the beginning of the stage by the ROs. The plywood pieces in the dump buckets was something I had not seen before...might have increased my chances for the safety to be disengaged, will be more aware from now on of this possibility. I think the match was run very well considering the weather issues. The communication was excellent keeping shooters updated on Saturday. I will not hesitate to return to this facility for another match. I appreciate everyone's hard work, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlat32 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I hope to see ya on the range next year...looks like we will have SIX 3gunnation regionals in 2015....I can not wait! I enjoyed the one Regional match I had a chance to attend this year. Six next year! Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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