Why the racing to bring up your classification?

[UCOShooter]

The more I worry about moving up the more classifiers I tank. I should've had the mindset all along as treating it as just another stage but it's hard to do. I've come to the conclusion that I'll move up when my performance says I should. I'd much rather be a C class shooter being competitive with other C class people than an A class getting whipped every match. Whether right, wrong, or indifferent that's my thinking

I have the same thinking... Say a new shooter comes into the sport and hears everyone saying "Oh man I just have to hurry up and get to A class". Well that new shooter is going to follow the pressure by doing the same thing, when they shouldn't be there. Then they are getting their ass beat and have no confidence, and maybe in the long run get burnt out on the sport. Let your own skills take you to a different classification, and not personally just trying to let it all out. If you just shoot and you shoot an A class classifier than that is where you need to be.

[UCOShooter]

And I think the threads are a great idea. They set a goal, and there's a race to it! Thats what we are here do, race, and become better shooters. Those threads are a means to both.

I don't think they are a bad idea at all. I am a firm believer on setting goals and achieving them. But let your hard earned skills when you are just shooting, achieve those goals.

[motosapiens]

The more I worry about moving up the more classifiers I tank. I should've had the mindset all along as treating it as just another stage but it's hard to do. I've come to the conclusion that I'll move up when my performance says I should. I'd much rather be a C class shooter being competitive with other C class people than an A class getting whipped every match. Whether right, wrong, or indifferent that's my thinking

I have the same thinking... Say a new shooter comes into the sport and hears everyone saying "Oh man I just have to hurry up and get to A class". Well that new shooter is going to follow the pressure by doing the same thing, when they shouldn't be there. Then they are getting their ass beat and have no confidence, and maybe in the long run get burnt out on the sport. Let your own skills take you to a different classification, and not personally just trying to let it all out. If you just shoot and you shoot an A class classifier than that is where you need to be.

So, are you saying that the rest of us shouldn't strive to improve quickly because it will make new shooters cry and quit the sport?

I'm not convinced this is a problem that needs solving (or even thinking about).

[UCOShooter]

I can see I got in your head Gump! That's how I beat you to B class: psychological warfare

UCO, can you now see how much fun this is ?!?

Oh this is fun. I truly love seeing everyone's different viewpoints. Not trying to start arguments, just a good ol' discussion!

[copecowboy22]

I just go shoot. I've only been shooting uspsa for 6 months and only have one major under my belt. There's a guy local that shoots my same division and is one class up. He's pretty consistent so I usually gauge how I'm doing compared to him(even if he is taking the extra 2 rounds for SS minor). I'd like to make At least M but I'm in no rush to get there.

[UCOShooter]

The more I worry about moving up the more classifiers I tank. I should've had the mindset all along as treating it as just another stage but it's hard to do. I've come to the conclusion that I'll move up when my performance says I should. I'd much rather be a C class shooter being competitive with other C class people than an A class getting whipped every match. Whether right, wrong, or indifferent that's my thinking

I have the same thinking... Say a new shooter comes into the sport and hears everyone saying "Oh man I just have to hurry up and get to A class". Well that new shooter is going to follow the pressure by doing the same thing, when they shouldn't be there. Then they are getting their ass beat and have no confidence, and maybe in the long run get burnt out on the sport. Let your own skills take you to a different classification, and not personally just trying to let it all out. If you just shoot and you shoot an A class classifier than that is where you need to be.

So, are you saying that the rest of us shouldn't strive to improve quickly because it will make new shooters cry and quit the sport?

I'm not convinced this is a problem that needs solving (or even thinking about).

Not saying that you can do whatever the hell you want to do. The other guys who are trying to build confidence don't need to be worried about the classifier. Just thinking a little bit!

[levellinebrad]

I'm just in it for the money.

[Garyg19]

Lately I have been seeing and hearing a bunch of guys worrying so much about their classification, and I am confused. I do not understand why you want to get up in to A class, when you perform like a C class shooter in a match. Of course you can mow down classifiers when that is all you practice, but outside of that you truly should not be in a upper class.

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this, because I am confused?

You're right!

You ARE confused

[A-shot]

Grandbaggers exist, but they still had to drop those scores. I want to do my personal best in classifiers because that is where I am best. I want that card. First you get da card, den you get da power, and den, you get da women...isn't that what this is all about? And just feel bad for those poor dudes that get the GM card and get molly wopped, because that hurts too. New shooters should not feel any pressure, they need to be safe and not get sent home.

[kneelingatlas]

I like to hear guys talking about "mowing down a classifier", like it's something you can just decide to do

[mgardner]

I like to hear guys talking about "mowing down a classifier", like it's something you can just decide to do

I can do that, but usually I mow down the no shoots too. LOL

[KOBGT]

It's just like golf and the handicap system. There are 4 types of players. Think of these terms in respect to golf, but there is a similarity here.

1. Scratch golfer, low handicapper (True GM) These guys are motivated to practice and get better, don't really care what their "handicap" is, and consistently do well regardless because they put the time in to develop all the skills needed and are consistent. These are the guys who win more than anyone else because they are the real deal. Not limited to GM class. Guys who consistently finish in top 10 of their class at major matches. Respected by their fellow competitors.

2. The Sandbagger. They purposely don't do well and turn in high score scores on their practice rounds (classifiers) so when they get "flighted" (classified) in a tournament, they are put into a lower flight where the competition is below their real ability. Their fellow competitors know who they are, and what "flight" (class) they should be in and therefore not much respect given. Not well liked by their fellow competitors.

3. The Reverse Sandbagger. (Paper GM) These guys turn in lower scores in their non tournament rounds to pad their handicap (go for broke on classifiers) so they can SAY they are a single digit handicapper, they get crushed in tournaments because they don't even know how to play as good as they're handicap says they are. Forgotten and mocked by their fellow competitors.

4. Ranger rick. Guys who can hit every shot in practice on the driving range (do great at local matches) but just fold under tournament/ bigger match pressure.

The only one I have a problem with is #2. Because essentially it's being a little dishonest, some of these guys have no problem with it, but I would have trouble sleeping at night. All the others, to each his own.

I don't really care about the other 3. To each his own.

Edited September 20, 2014 by KOBGT

[kneelingatlas]

I prefer to judge a shooter based on the content of his character rather than some assumptions I've made about his shooting skills

Edited September 20, 2014 by kneelingatlas

[Nimitz]

Some of the 'hero to zero' mentality you see can be caused by one of the quirks in the classification system itself. Namely the fact that if you shoot a classifier X percentage points (can't remember the exact #) below your current classification level that score is simply thrown out and never used.

What I've heard some people say is that in order to avoid having classifiers go on their record that are lower than their current percentage and bringing their classification percentage down instead of up, they simple go hero to zero. If it goes 'hero' they get a nice score, if it goes 'zero' nothing lost as that one won't count. This way they always preserve their percentage and never go backwards. Even if they don't get a truly hero score they will either get one that is at or slightly above which is ok as well to their way of thinking.

Not the whole answer but there are certainly folks out there who think like that ...

[Nimitz]

I'd like to see classifiers mandatory at all level II & III matches, maybe even more than one stage if the match is big enough so that folks are discouraged from screwing around with them because it will affect their match score.

[teros135]

I'd like to see classifiers mandatory at all level II & III matches, maybe even more than one stage if the match is big enough so that folks are discouraged from screwing around with them because it will affect their match score.

In many cases, the LII-LIII match percentage (in your Division) becomes a classifier score. If I have it right, if there are enough GMs in your Division (3?) your overall percentage can be used as a single classifier score. I believe the MD has to request it.

Also, the rule book states that

"Placement in a major event with a score above your assigned class percentage may result in your being promoted to a higher class, even if your current average is lower"

"Winning first or second in class at an Area Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class may result in promotion (except to GM)".

So, there are several ways to change classifications. Hard to sandbag a whole major match, just to maintain a lower classification!

(Edited for clarity)

Edited September 20, 2014 by teros135

[motosapiens]

I have to say I really don't care whether people sandbag or grandbag or are awesome or whatever. I think recognition and prize-tables for 'class' 'winners' is stupid anyway, and only encourages sandbagging and a trophy-for-everyone mentality, but there's no need for it to affect my enjoyment or my focus.

I just want to get better. Classifiers are one way of measuring that, match results (specifically the percentage of the winners's score) are another, steel challenge times are yet another.

I certainly don't mock someone for not doing as well in a match as their classification suggests. There are lots of reasons for that; bad day, malfunctions, just not shooting as much anymore, getting older, whatever.

[remoandiris]

Grandbaggers exist,

I shot a L1 in the northeast recently. There were several competitors there who shot field courses VERY well. When I shot the classifier I thought I tanked it. When the results came out, I won it for my division (Prod). I couldn't believe the sandbaggers.

[KOBGT]

I have to say I really don't care whether people sandbag or grandbag or are awesome or whatever. I think recognition and prize-tables for 'class' 'winners' is stupid anyway, and only encourages sandbagging and a trophy-for-everyone mentality, but there's no need for it to affect my enjoyment or my focus.

I just want to get better. Classifiers are one way of measuring that, match results (specifically the percentage of the winners's score) are another, steel challenge times are yet another.

I certainly don't mock someone for not doing as well in a match as their classification suggests. There are lots of reasons for that; bad day, malfunctions, just not shooting as much anymore, getting older, whatever.

Agree 100%

[TheBoss]

...because they are retards. I watched several race up to GM on classifiers, get a sponsor and then when it counts as the sponsor expects performance week in and week out, they fall flat typically landing at the bottom A shooters. Hard lesson.

[beltjones]

...because they are retards. I watched several race up to GM on classifiers, get a sponsor and then when it counts as the sponsor expects performance week in and week out, they fall flat typically landing at the bottom A shooters. Hard lesson.

In USPSA? I don't think it really works that way in our sport vis a vis sponsorships and sponsor expectations.

[mike cyrwus]

ha!.

some folks think a classification bump in an accomplishment, its only an assessment of current skill level at one point in time. A paper card you get in the mail is not a trophy.

Edited September 21, 2014 by mike cyrwus

[kneelingatlas]

Tell us about your childhood Mike.

[Nimitz]

I actually don't buy into the whole 'grandbagger' concept. After all, to get your GM card you have to shoot GM level scores and for all of us who ain't GMs I assume we know how hard that really is. Let's face it, you may be able zero to hero one or even two classifiers, but 6? No way, you have to be able to shoot.

And the problem with the 'evidence' provided to prove that they are Grangbaggers is that they get beat by master and A class shooters. Well, unless you know the pedigree of these masters and As, they could easily be much better shooters than their classification indicates. We all know masters who don't shoot classifiers becuase they don't wan to get bumped to GM and have to compete with the top shooters at big matches ....

[motosapiens]

ha!.

some folks think a classification bump in an accomplishment, its only an assessment of current skill level at one point in time. A paper card you get in the mail is not a trophy.

most of the trophies aren't accomplishments either. They're just a feel-good self esteem prize for being a little better than the other guys that don't practice.