Praticscore and Dishonest Shooters..Cheating

[Tcon260]

A question for you Practiscorel experts.

I just shot my first match using Practiscore…what an improvement over paper scoresheets. Quick stage scoring and results posted quickly. Love it.

Let's just assume for a moment that we have a dishonest shooter in the squad…a real dirtbag…who wants to cheat. So he seemingly is a stand up guy and takes the tablet to score…you know…just helping out...doing his part to help the squad.

What are the checks and balances so he can't go back and change his time or points on a stage? Is there a provision in the software where once a shooter "accepts" the score that the time, points, penalties can't be changed?

Ya, I know that 99.8% of the shooters are honest, stand up people. And that a lot of the shooters don't care if some dirt bag does cheat. Me personally, I don't really care. Just wondering though if the software somehow has checks and balances.

[Poppa Bear]

I happen to have our master Nook beside me. Scores have been posted from our last match so I tried changing the score for a target on one of my stages. That change put a 1 on my line. Changing it back turned the 1 into a 2. So it would appear that changes after they have been saved are noted

[Vlad]

So .. what happens when the unscrupulous bastard intentional writes down the wrong time, say +/- 2 seconds? The issue is not a technological one, if is a social one and the solution is as it has always been.

[ZackJones]

PractiScore can maintain scoring logs so you can see a running history of changes made to a score. It's a feature that is enabled at the match level. I don't have an Android tablet handy but on iOS when the match is defined there's a option for "Score Logging"

Something I just noticed this morning is the score logs are actually uploaded to "scorelog.practiscore.com" web site. So there's a place you can go to review changes to scores. That's pretty slick!

EDIT: Corrected URL. Sorry 'bout that.

Edited September 16, 2014 by ZackJones

[Tcon260]

ZackJones,

Your link does not work for me. Where did you find the log?

[euxx]

You need scoring devices to have internet connection at the range for for score logging to work and it is only implemented on ios. In my recollection Ken needed a way to track score changes without paper for 2013 USPSA Nationals he run.

Later in 2014 we designed alternative score tracking, which doesn't require internet connection (i.e. uses regular match sync) and it is always enabled (since 1.2.19 on Android). That also allowed us to implement reassign and reset scores.

Edited September 15, 2014 by euxx

[Ken N.]

https://scorelog.practiscore.com/

Also, with logging you can check to easily find any scores edited after a significant period of time. At matches I look for changes after 5 minutes or later. They should be reshoots, or RM approved edits. If not, investigate. Score logs are shown on the Edit Scores page, down near the bottom. They are shown by stage, and by shooter, and by time duration between edits. These are also useful for detecting scoring on the wrong stage. For instance, a device assigned to stage 7 should not have logs for stage 6.

Regards,

Ken N.

[MarkCO]

When I run a match, part of my audit is to look at any changed scores. I tell my staff there will be NO reshoots (score was completed and entered) without RM authorization, so I have the list of any re-shoots. And yes, I have DQ'd a shooter for changing a score.

If you look through the scorelog Ken posted, you will find some interesting examples that should be cause for concern. Like a score with a time, and a few misses, then another score, without the misses a short time later.

[Tcon260]

All,

This is interesting and useful information to keep that small percentage of shooters who would change a score, as evidenced by MarkCO having DQ'd a shooter for changing a score.

Aside from just the intellectual discussion, I am interested in looking at a score log for a match shot on Sunday 9/14. The scores are posted on practiscore.com; however, I don't see a score log for this match at http://scorelog.practiscore.com. I can follow the link to the page. And I see matches posted, but not the match I'm interested in seeing. In fact, when I click on any of the hyperlinks (match name or eye icon), I get "Sorry, We could not find the selected match. Please try again"

1-Why don't I see the match listed that I'm interested in?

1-Why can't I see any score logs?

[jester121]

1 - Are you running the latest version of Practiscore?

1 - Do your scoring devices have full time internet access at the range?

[Tcon260]

Jester121,

1-not sure...just a competitor trying to see a match log

2- again...not sure, but I doubt it.

From just a philosophical point, can just some "Joe Schmo" competitor look at score logs, or is that just a match administrator function. Would be, as they say in Washington, "transparent" if that was the case.

[Poppa Bear]

You do not need to look at the score logs if you have the scoring device. Changes are logged on the squad list for that stage. If you see a number on the right-hand side of a competitors listing that score has been changed. Changing the score back just adds another number so that it can be seen the score was changed twice.

[euxx]

You do not need to look at the score logs if you have the scoring device. Changes are logged on the squad list for that stage. If you see a number on the right-hand side of a competitors listing that score has been changed. Changing the score back just adds another number so that it can be seen the score was changed twice.

He he... That's Android only. Since 1.2.21. It is not the log, it's scores history. But unlike logs that information is also synced up the chain to the master device.

The last ios app does this too but it is more subtle (e.g. you can see history of changes if you tap on scored shooter).

[Tcon260]

Poppa Bear,

Useful information while at the match with scoring device in hand.

I am currently trying to determine if, from home after the match, one can see the scoring log (i.e editing history). You know....looking at the scores on the net,and something just doesn't look right compared to your observations at the match. Surely, just some sort of error...maybe my observation was just distorted...a hot day in the sun.

So, my question is can someone:

1-no device in hand

2-no connection with the stat department

3-not a match official

4- just Joe Schmo

See the editing history online.

[euxx]

Anyone can access https://scorelog.practiscore.com/

But! Only if all of the following was the case:

* scores logging were enabled when match was created

* all scoring devices were ios devices

* they all had internet connection during match

However, if you synced your own device from master that had final scores at the end of the match, you can see scores changes.

Edited September 15, 2014 by euxx

[ZackJones]

If you want to see some data on the scorelog web site do the following

- go to scorelog.practiscore.com

- search for PGC - you should find PGC Aug Steel (SCSA077)

- Click the eye and then look at the data presented. You can see today where I tweaked one of my results to try it as well as other changes I made to get a stage with a single string to work.

[jdphotoguy]

Tcon260, sounds like you're out of luck in your efforts to determine if your hunch is correct.

If you truly think something shady happened, bring it up to the MD/RM for the match, if that is not an option for whatever reason, offer to help the person(s) handling the scoring at future matches, then you'll be in the inner circle with access to the info you need.

[Tcon260]

jdphotoguy,

yep…sounds like I'm out of luck. No worries. It was a out of town match, so I'm not likely to help out.

Just generally speaking, it seems like a good idea that all scores posted had a history log attached. If nothing else, keep people honest and make the stat process transparent. Nothing disparaging intended for all of those who work hard to make matches happen….

[TheBoss]

Don't +2 me bro!

[Jim Norman]

It is a sad state of affairs when we have to think about how to keep someone from changing a score. We keep our scores on our systems and therefore can dispute any changes made elsewhere. If someone were to be caught altering a score, I would like to be able to know that they have shot their last match anywhere in any sport.