2011BLDR Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If you neck down a .40 S & W case to 9MM it will not be a .357 SIG the neck will be too short. There were several .40 S & W necked down to 9MM open guns around in the late 90’s this wildcat predated the introduction of the .357 SIG. we had several of them being run in our area at the time. The pluses were free brass, lots of gas for the comp and way easy to make 175PF. The drawback was magazine capacity (25-26). 356TSW was 9X21.5mm I still run .38SC in open I mark my brass and I get 90% back each match, I bought 4000 Armscor in 2002 or so and was recently down to around 2000 in my rotation so I grabbed a 2500 case of new this year. I personally like the flexibility a .38SC case gives me in powder choice, I am currently loading 9.9g of N105 due to powder shortages. Out. 2011BLDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If you neck down a .40 S & W case to 9MM it will not be a .357 SIG the neck will be too short. There were several .40 S & W necked down to 9MM open guns around in the late 90’s this wildcat predated the introduction of the .357 SIG. we had several of them being run in our area at the time. The pluses were free brass, lots of gas for the comp and way easy to make 175PF. The drawback was magazine capacity (25-26). Out. 2011BLDR you are correct the neck ends up a few thousands short (i think I was getting .010 less than factory 357sig when I bothered to measure. I use a Lee factory crimp die that is a collet typ and doesn't rely on case length to set the crimp, so I just throw them all in together and crank away on the press. capacity is the problem I can get 25 in my biggest magazine most of the guys I know running 2011's in 9 or 38 get 28-30 in their mags I think one guy even has a 31rd mag. the capacity issue rears its head on those 24-28 rd field courses if I have to stick a reload it may change the way I can shoot the stage vs another shooter that doesnt have to worry about the reload. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Kneelingatlas - just an FYI AA#7 is pretty dense stuff AA#7 = 985 g/l 3N38 and N105 = 730 g/l I think that Cocobolo posted some info about loading 9maj with AA#7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Kneelingatlas - just an FYI AA#7 is pretty dense stuff AA#7 = 985 g/l 3N38 and N105 = 730 g/l I think that Cocobolo posted some info about loading 9maj with AA#7. Sounds Like I've got to put it on my wish list then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I think there's got to be a point where the powder is just too slow to burn in a 5" X .355" barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I remember making 175+ pf with AA#9 and heavy 150-160 grain bullets. Also tried 2400 and H110 and recall coming to the conclusion that they were a no-go for 38 super major at 175 PF. Either I couldn't get enough powder in the case, or maybe they were so compressed that it was creeping me out. So, I would say that the line is somewhere around AA#9 or slower. I recall for 9maj that Cocobolo was pretty fond of Silhouette and this was with a dawson awesome comp with no barrel holes. You should put that one on your list if you haven't already. Edited July 25, 2014 by Bamboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 That is why I like 38 Super. I can use any powder that I would like to and 9mm can't. Which powders are these Bill? I've heard the comment many times but no specific powder referenced. I ask with honest curiosity, because I know in theory 38 should be able to hold a larger charge of slower powder, but in practice I run into a lot of 38 guys running faster powders with heavier bullets than I do in my 9. I'm sure I'll misstate one but how about 3n37 3n38 AA7 n105 to start? I only use 115gr bullets so a heavier bullet might open possibilities Well Bill, I've never used any of those powders, but I use SP2 and VV says 3N38 can use the same data so that's where I base my assumptions: I've made 181PF with a 115gr bullet over 9.5gr of SP2 (I pushed the charge weight all the way to 10.0 and didn't get any more velocity), I I would assume similar results from 3N38; 3N37 is faster and according to the VV published data takes roughly 85% of the charge weight to make the same velocity, so that should be no problem; N105 is slightly slower than 3N38 (the data shows ~1.5% more powder for the same velocity) so since my normal load is 9.3gr of SP2, I would think 9.4-9.5gr of N105 should safely make major; AA#7 is certainly too slow to make major in 9mm as it seems to take ~15% more powder than 3N38 to make the same velocity. I have read posts from multiple users here that say they shoot 9 Major with both 3N38 and N105 (if I can get my hands on some I intend to try both). The point of my previous comment is that I don't know anyone shooting 38 super using powders in this range, most guys I talk to (and who's pistols I've shot) are loading HS-6 or AutoComp under a 124gr bullet so while I know 38 super has the potential to create more gas, but I think there are a lot of 38 shooters not using that potential. On the contrary, I think I am squeezing every pit of potential out of the 9x19 case and am very happy with it (that's not to say I will never borrow/buy a .38 super gun, do my own load development and fall in love ). 3n38 in 9mm? I guess if you don't mind loading 1 round in 5 sec as you try to not spill it. Depending on your barrel's speed (actual powder load) the OAL will change as the powder forces the bullet up. I am sure somebody will tell me that they made it work. Great. I'm getting ready to load 1K for next weeks matches and practice so I don't have time for problems. I am still glad that I shoot 38 Super for the reason I stated. 9mm is great cause you can leave your brass at matches. I think its up to you to decide which is important to you. I don't like Autocomp and could tolerate HS6/CFE if that's all I had. If Autocomp gave me cases of powder free and 124 gr bullets free I would shoot them forever. Oh and if I had a sponsor that said I had to shoot a 9mm that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powder Finger Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I think there's got to be a point where the powder is just too slow to burn in a 5" X .355" barrel. not so sure, I ran H108 (AKAAA9S) which was a surplus powder in 9x23 w/ 5" barrel. You could get enough to make 181 or so with 130 bb's, also made it with WW296. I doubt you can go any slower as you won't get enough in the case, that would to me be the limiting factor. You couldn't make power factor with 115's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 BSeevers: What did you not like about Auto Comp? I find it burns clean and has lots of gas. I am using it for 9mm and 115grain bullets. Let me know. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I find autocomp initial pulse "harsh" for lack of a better word. Now as said I would shoot it if it's all I had or free. After shooting the same powder for 16 yrs (one of the secrets to shooting fast) this year I had to switch cause you get what you get. It was easier to switch I think cause I'm shooting way more and better. Guess what ? After natls I get to switch again. I think it will be fine. Hey sponsor pays for it but half the price and 200 more round per lb makes it a no brainer. CFE in October Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 BSeevers: That is what I found as well except the timer does not lie, at least for me. HS-6 and Auto Comp work the best for me in 9mm major. Keep us posted on the CFE. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranoel Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 After reading several discussions on a couple different forums I have decided not to compromise and just build two pistols. One single stack .45 for pins (or I may just keep using my old .45 and do a few upgrades) and The new Caspian will be .38 SC. Yeah it may be hard to get brass for initially but it doesn't take long to build up a good stash And with all the trouble I see people having with 9mm, I think the .38SC is overall the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 with all the trouble I see people having with 9mm, I think the .38SC is overall the best option. You must be talking to Dr. Love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranoel Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 Nah. I just made an intelligent, informed decision. The 1911 was not designed to feed tapered cases. I'm reading on a couple different forums about people having trouble with 9mm feeding. (mostly nose dives on the feed ramp) I know it can be fixed with proper tuning of the mags and loads but why bother with all that when I can get better gas pressure and more reliable feeding from 38SC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
450AK Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 With the price of components I think 9 major is the only way to go. It's nice not having to pick your brass up if you don't feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Hello: 9mm does not give any feeding problems if the gun is built right. If I got all the 38SC brass for free I still would shoot 9mm. I'd sell all the 38SC brass and shoot for free. Wait, most guys around here that shoot open are shooting 9mm so I won't be able to sell the brass to them. Since you have made up your mind to shoot 38SC start buying your brass now. Buy all the N105 you can find and have fun. All kidding aside really start buying components now. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 I wouldn't know about 1911s and 9mm, I only shoot CZ75 pattern pistols which were designed for 9x19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranoel Posted July 27, 2014 Author Share Posted July 27, 2014 So, shoot your 9s and be happy. I'm going .38SC and I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joedirt Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 what is the popular round now? 9mm Major is most popular, now. Let the pointless debate begin!! (Because you KNOW someone is going to say that .38S is more popular.) there's no "like" button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joedirt Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 BSeevers: What did you not like about Auto Comp? I find it burns clean and has lots of gas. I am using it for 9mm and 115grain bullets. Let me know. Thanks, Eric you didn't say "hello" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 So, shoot your 9s and be happy. I'm going .38SC and I'll be happy. I am sure you will be happy... I think one can be happy with either caliber. I have owned and shot both, and really see no difference, VERY few problems with either. A personal choice is a personal choice, I just would like to avoid creating the impression that there are some indemic problems with 9mm - if so, then they are soooo well hidden that I have not been able to stumble over one yet. You reload... put them into your gun... you shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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