JGus Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Does anyone have an actual ruling from Amidon of "yea" or "nay" if a Shadow slide retrofitted with an Accu bushing is Production legal or not, assuming it's also on an SP01 Shadow frame? That would clear this up. I don't ask if you aren't ready to except the clarification. Sometime ambiguity can be your friend. That's true. I have an Accu Shadow as primary Production gun and a Shadow Target for back up. I was thinking about sending in the Shadow Target to CZC for upgrade to have an identical backup. I'd hate to have to sell the Shadow Target, then try to find an Accu somewhere to buy to replace it, when the simple solution would be to send the Shadow Target slide to CZC. Because either way it's the same identical gun whether I buy an Accu or have a Shadow retro fitted to an Accu. But it would also save me money just having the Shadow slide retro fitted based on what I paid for the Shadow Target. And, the Accu I currently have I paid several hundred dollars less than what they are currently selling for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czhase Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 One of the members did contact Amidon regarding a retro fit Accu bushing, the ruling was that it was illegal. The gun had to come from the factory with it, now the complete Accu upper is a gray area I have not heard a ruling on if that would be production legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Didn't realize CZC is a "factory"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Does anyone have an actual ruling from Amidon of "yea" or "nay" if a Shadow slide retrofitted with an Accu bushing is Production legal or not, assuming it's also on an SP01 Shadow frame? That would clear this up. I don't ask if you aren't ready to except the clarification. Sometime ambiguity can be your friend. lol. something like better to ask forgiveness than permission! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 hmm. that is cool. buy an SP01 sell standard upper fit accu upper enter USPSA match ????? profit That scenarios minus the ACCU has been covered ad nauseum. You can't do it with a standard SP01 frame since it has the safety plunger and in Production you are not allowed to modify to disable any safeties. ahh, good point. I guess though you could do it on a shadow frame. so if you started with a shadow, you could be a complete accu upper and then have an accu. at the end of the day it seems like it may just be easier for anyone interested in this to just suck it up and buy the freaken accu! no hassles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo_Beddoe Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) 21.3 After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. Isn't the accu shadow slide the same length, contour, and caliber as the shadow slide and therefore be legal? Edited June 20, 2014 by Philo_Beddoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 21.3 After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. Isn't the accu shadow slide the same length, contour, and caliber as the shadow slide and therefore be legal? It's definitely close. you might be able to argue a slight contour change at the bushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGus Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) So I'm really confused at this point. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but here is how I understand it up to this point: If you send in an SP01 Shadow complete upper assembly to be retrofit for an Accu bushing, the gun is illegal in Production. If you replace the Shadow entire upper assembly with an Accu Shadow entire upper assembly that came directly from CZ, then it's legal. Per 21.3? ??? Edited June 20, 2014 by JGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) The 75 SP-01 Shadow is the model of firearm. The 75 SP-01 Accu-Shadow is another model of firearm. Therefore, you can't change the slide of one model of shadow to another model of shadow. I might even see the bushing being called out as not the same contour. 21.3 After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. If CZC and CZ-USA would stop changing model names every time they change a feature or even rear sight.. Edited June 20, 2014 by DWFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo_Beddoe Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 21.3 After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. Isn't the accu shadow slide the same length, contour, and caliber as the shadow slide and therefore be legal? It's definitely close. you might be able to argue a slight contour change at the bushing. I guess that depends on how they are defining contour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo_Beddoe Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) The 75 SP-01 Shadow is the model of firearm. The 75 SP-01 Accu-Shadow is another model of firearm. Therefore, you can't change the slide of one model of shadow to another model of shadow. I might even see the bushing being called out as not the same contour. 21.3 After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. If CZC and CZ-USA would stop changing model names every time they change a feature or even rear sight.. Why could I not put a CZ 75 shadow slide on a CZ Sp-01 shadow frame? The only difference is the markings (which an allowable aftermarket slide would have different markings), the length, contour, and caliber are the same. Edited June 20, 2014 by Philo_Beddoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo_Beddoe Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 So I'm really confused at this point. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but here is how I understand it up to this point: If you send in an SP01 Shadow complete upper assembly to be retrofit for an Accu bushing, the gun is illegal in Production. If you replace the Shadow entire upper assembly with an Accu Shadow entire upper assembly that came directly from CZ, then it's legal. Per 21.3? ??? It's all legal until an RO moves you to open and it sticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Is an after-market slide allowed? I don't think so. The 75 SP-01 Shadow is the model of firearm. The 75 SP-01 Accu-Shadow is another model of firearm. Therefore, you can't change the slide of one model of shadow to another model of shadow. I might even see the bushing being called out as not the same contour. 21.3 After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. If CZC and CZ-USA would stop changing model names every time they change a feature or even rear sight.. Why could I not put a CZ 75 shadow slide on a CZ Sp-01 shadow frame? The only difference is the markings (which an allowable aftermarket slide would have different markings), the length, contour, and caliber are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo_Beddoe Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Is an after-market slide allowed? I don't think so. The 75 SP-01 Shadow is the model of firearm. The 75 SP-01 Accu-Shadow is another model of firearm. Therefore, you can't change the slide of one model of shadow to another model of shadow. I might even see the bushing being called out as not the same contour. 21.3 After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. If CZC and CZ-USA would stop changing model names every time they change a feature or even rear sight.. Why could I not put a CZ 75 shadow slide on a CZ Sp-01 shadow frame? The only difference is the markings (which an allowable aftermarket slide would have different markings), the length, contour, and caliber are the same. Yes an aftermarket slide is allowed per 21.3. Edited June 21, 2014 by Philo_Beddoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick88 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Didn't realize CZC is a "factory"? Same here, these guns are imports made in an overseas factory they arrive here in stock form then a custom shop alters the slide and ads an external mod with an aftermarket part changing the original design and somehow this is legal...Its to bad that you now need a high dollar custom shop gun to be competitive in production division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It isn't a matter of if they are a factory. They applied for and received approval onto the approved factory gun list. And you don't "need" a high dollar gun to compete or even be competitive. Want is a whole nuther matter altogether. And, for the record--I think all of this is silly and the rules should be revised to reflect the original intent and eliminate some of this parts changing nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czhase Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 High dollar custom gun? These things are a steal next to some of the Tanfo's that have been floating around the classifieds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philo_Beddoe Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It isn't a matter of if they are a factory. They applied for and received approval onto the approved factory gun list. And you don't "need" a high dollar gun to compete or even be competitive. Want is a whole nuther matter altogether. And, for the record--I think all of this is silly and the rules should be revised to reflect the original intent and eliminate some of this parts changing nonsense. I wish it was more like single stack, get rid of the list of "approved" handguns and just lay down a list of rules of what is / isnt allowed. Single stack caters to 1911's, production caters to striker fired, DA/SA, and DA handguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Good catch, Philo. I had only remembered the OFM part. Then, here is a question: Is the bushing considered a part of the slide? If so, then the slide length of Accu would be different than that of the regular Shadow. Is an after-market slide allowed? I don't think so. The 75 SP-01 Shadow is the model of firearm. The 75 SP-01 Accu-Shadow is another model of firearm.Therefore, you can't change the slide of one model of shadow to another model of shadow. I might even see the bushing being called out as not the same contour. 21.3After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard.SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect – You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. If CZC and CZ-USA would stop changing model names every time they change a feature or even rear sight.. Why could I not put a CZ 75 shadow slide on a CZ Sp-01 shadow frame? The only difference is the markings (which an allowable aftermarket slide would have different markings), the length, contour, and caliber are the same. Yes an aftermarket slide is allowed per 21.3. Edited June 21, 2014 by justaute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 It isn't a matter of if they are a factory. They applied for and received approval onto the approved factory gun list. And you don't "need" a high dollar gun to compete or even be competitive. Want is a whole nuther matter altogether. And, for the record--I think all of this is silly and the rules should be revised to reflect the original intent and eliminate some of this parts changing nonsense. I wish it was more like single stack, get rid of the list of "approved" handguns and just lay down a list of rules of what is / isnt allowed. Single stack caters to 1911's, production caters to striker fired, DA/SA, and DA handguns. I couldn't agree more. Striker fired or SA/DA minor PF, 10 round mags, must fit in the box and then set upper and lower weight limits. Would have to craft a bit carefully so as to keep it from becoming L10 minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon49erfan Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The 75 SP-01 Shadow is the model of firearm. The 75 SP-01 Accu-Shadow is another model of firearm. Therefore, you can't change the slide of one model of shadow to another model of shadow. I might even see the bushing being called out as not the same contour. 21.3 After-market slides and barrels provided they are the same length, con- tour and caliber as original factory standard. SLIDES: Current rules remain in effect You may replace the slide with an OFM or aftermarket slide which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original slide for that model of gun. If CZC and CZ-USA would stop changing model names every time they change a feature or even rear sight.. Looks to me like the accu upper is an aftermarket slide made for a shadow vs. a factory slide for an accushadow. Until there is a clear ruling, it can be construed a few different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick88 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 High dollar custom gun? These things are a steal next to some of the Tanfo's that have been floating around the classifieds. Are we talking about the same gun? last time I looked and I could be wrong but the czc accu was about $1800 I consider that to be an expensive production gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Yup...at least Tanfoglio made an effort to bring Grauffel's Xtreme parts under its umbrella. As far as I know, CZC is just a third-party vendor. Didn't realize CZC is a "factory"? Same here, these guns are imports made in an overseas factory they arrive here in stock form then a custom shop alters the slide and ads an external mod with an aftermarket part changing the original design and somehow this is legal...Its to bad that you now need a high dollar custom shop gun to be competitive in production division... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 High dollar custom gun? These things are a steal next to some of the Tanfo's that have been floating around the classifieds. Are we talking about the same gun? last time I looked and I could be wrong but the czc accu was about $1800 I consider that to be an expensive production gun... I suspect the comment was laden heavily with sarcasm. Pretty sure most, myself included would consider the Accushadow expensive as compared to the polymer striker fired models commonly used in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 There were some Tanfos trying to be sold for $3,000 on Enos not too long ago. Pretty sure I that is the reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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