Flexmoney Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 OK... ran this by somebody higher up on the food-chain than me. You guys have probably seen this setup before...the Windmill with the Steel No-Shoots guarding it. I think there is something about this that makes it...less than legal. Can you figure it out (It took 1.5 years for it to dawn on me.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Well, if green book rules apply and the penalty targets were paper, 2.1.8.4 says that they (the static penalty targets) cannot be greater than 90 degrees from the vertical, but I don't think that includes steel targets, and wasn't in effect for USPSA 18 months ago. There isn't a nonscoring border on the Steel though. I suppose you could argue that an extreme edge hit on the steel, which should be scored as a penalty, could easily get missed if the edges of the steel weren't painted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Kevin c, Nice...but I'm not looking for 2.1.8.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Not looking at the rules, but... When this array finally comes to rest, it will not always come to rest in the same place, whereas a Drop-out, Out and back, swinger, Clamshell, Drop-turner or other similar type does. This presents a different ultimate challange. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 If this target array is motor driven and activated by a door/switch/button/window/pressure plate/whatever the consistency will be the same for all and be OK if it doesn't stop (non-disappearing target). What were you thinking of Flex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 If you look at section 4.3 in the 14th Edition or in the January 2004 edition of the rules you will not find a metal metric listed under "IPSC Approved Handgun Targets - Metal." Making the metal metric a no shoot makes it a scoring target. This is not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Does it have anything to do with 9.1.5.3. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I don't know but I shot this at the 2003 FGN match. Last stage I shot, four targets on a windmill, protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I don't think the steel targets are no-shoots as much as they are hard cover shaped like the targets themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhu Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 If you look at section 4.3 in the 14th Edition or in the January 2004 edition of the rules you will not find a metal metric listed under "IPSC Approved Handgun Targets - Metal." Making the metal metric a no shoot makes it a scoring target. This is not allowed. No kidding. So place a paper on its surface, if you so concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 You still mad about that NS at Nationals? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 You still mad about that NS at Nationals? :D Nope (take a look at the scores...I didn't hit one there...regardless of what you might have got on video ) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Flex, I looked real hard trying to figure it out, but it just made me dizzy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 It made me sleepy.. then I started to think I was a chicken.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 If you look at section 4.3 in the 14th Edition or in the January 2004 edition of the rules you will not find a metal metric listed under "IPSC Approved Handgun Targets - Metal." Making the metal metric a no shoot makes it a scoring target. This is not allowed. There it is. We have a winner. IPSC/USPSA has 8 legal targets. We don't have any metal targets that look like paper no-shoots. Poppers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Plates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 What if the MD were to claim they were instead actually a whole stack of non-falling IPSC NS plates placed carefully edge-to-edge then welded into place? It would warm Jim -n- Jerry's hearts too, cause they could charge 2 NS per 15 cm area.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Did the steel earn no shoot penalties? I assumed from your first post they were hard cover since they were steel and 1. there is no legal steel metric target and 2. steel must fall to score and these did not look like they fell, hence legal hard cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 What if the MD were to claim they were instead actually a whole stack of non-falling IPSC NS plates placed carefully edge-to-edge then welded into place? LOL...I'd get out my shovel. I think the only answer is to stick paper on them (just the top NS, the bottom can't be upside-down with the new rule book...as kevin c pointed out). Or...paint them, and make them hard-cover. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Did the steel earn no shoot penalties? I assumed from your first post they were hard cover since they were steel and 1. there is no legal steel metric target and 2. steel must fall to score and these did not look like they fell, hence legal hard cover. Dale, - The big X on them shows, visually, that they are NS's. And, I did state that in the first post (Pretty sneaky stuff ) - Steel Penalty targets aren't require to fall. This was a tough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Paint 'em black and use 'em as hard cover, not no shoots. Makes it a little more fun, anyway. Not so big a pucker factor. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Baier Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Flex, We use a steel target to protect the pulley system for the windmill at our club but its considered hard cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Flex, We use a steel target to protect the pulley system for the windmill at our club but its considered hard cover. John, It is either one of the other, right? Depending on how you use it? It sounds like you use it as hard cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 8, 2005 Author Share Posted January 8, 2005 The thing I was really hoping to point out here is that we have 8 "official" types of targets at our disposal. (Sam...when I count to three...I will snap my fingers...you won't remember anything that has been said here...but every time you see and antelope, you will point it out to those around you and state that you "prefer sheep".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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