heebs Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Hi shooters I am looking for input from anyone who has used the new Unique powder in .40. I have tried Universal and WSF. The FPS spread was more than I was looking for(60 fps or more) I am using Rem 180 tfmj with a OAL of 1.160. I have a good crimp, so that shouldn't be the problem. Unique will fill the case to the bottom of the bullet, so it should give me more consistancy. Any suggestions? Heebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Unique is an improvement over black powder only in that it is non-corrosive (I think). You could use it, but the smoke and general nastiness will put you at a substantial competitive disadvantage. Run! Run away while you can.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 If you want something with a similar burn rate you could try Power Pistol. I shoot it in .357, 10mm, 9x21 and others. Runs great for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anyracoon Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 My friends & I have been using Unique in our 40s for a couple of years now. 6.5 for WestCoast 180s and 7.5 for their 155s. The OAL lengths are 1.125. Fun load to plink with and very accurate out of XDs 40s. Will try to go back and see what they were chronied at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heebs Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Thanks anyraccoon that would be great. The consistancy is what I am after. If anyone has info on WST that would be good also. I hate having a ammo that is all over the place. I know powder position affects both WSF and Universal clays. My chrono told me so. Heebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I hate to seem like a smart ass, but who cares if the bullets chrono at one single number if you can't see the freakin' targets six shots later? Shoot the Unique up if you've got it, but there are much, much, much better choices out there that cost the same or less. I would be simply thunderstruck to find anybody who's remotely competitive that shoots anything that smoky and grimy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heebs Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 EricW. The point That I am trying to get to is this. What good is a load that is inconsistant coming out of a barrel. We both know that accuracy IS important. 10 yard head shots are out there. Maybe we should have more. Even in this "game" and I use the word loosely. Both of the loads are extremely positional sensitive. Yes I can get the spread down to 20 fps if I tilt the gun up so the powder is against the primer. Now lets say you get to a match where the chrono man is having a bad day. (yes it happens.) All of a sudden your 170 pf goes to 163. Now the chrono man and I are having a bad day. What I am looking for is something that is not positional sensitive, usually a fluffy powder that fills the case somewhat. Does anyone have a good solution? I need good answers, not the usual this or that powder is no good. Heebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 The point That I am trying to get to is this. What good is a load that is inconsistant coming out of a barrel. We both know that accuracy IS important. My experience has been that the bullet diameter I'm using has far more effect on accuracy than velocity variations. YMMV. I have free Unique available to anyone who promises they will use it at Eddy Brown this year (under lead, of course). I also have some extra Pyrodex lying around for anyone who feels like dressing up like one of the Village People. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Everything in .40 is going to be position-sensitive. Unless you use a light bullet seated deep and a lot of a really slow powder. Which is going to suck as far as recoil and muzzle flip. If it's a major (no pun) worry for you, tilt the gun down for each shot at your chrono to position the powder for a worst-case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heebs Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Already did that trick, thats where the 163 come from. I am going to shoot 180 fmj. Don't have much choice on bullet diameter. Anybody else have good info on positional effects. heebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 i feel universal clays is a far better powder than unique...IN ANYTHING using all the same brand brass and bullets from the same lot i get exteme spreads in my 9mm and 40s of around 30 fps. im with eric with this one, run far far away. unless your riding right on the edge of major pf, i wouldnt worry about a extremly low extreme spread...i load to 175 pf and have no worries about making major, even in really cold weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I also have some extra Pyrodex lying around for anyone who feels like dressing up like one of the Village People. Thanks!!! You made me shoot my morning coffee out of my nose Unique was the very first powder I tried when I first bought a reloader. Rather than ask, like I have the option of now, I just grabbed the first bottle on the shelf, once I saw it was listed in the loading manual. Since then, everything, EVERYTHING has been an improvement. I figure the opposite end of the spectrum has to be the Vihts. Clean, consistent, oh, and don't forget expensive and hard to find with any regularlity. I am headed to Tightgroup.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I am with both Eric W's on this; avoid Unique like the plague. "Unique was the very first powder I tried when I first bought a reloader." -make that "very first smokless powder ever made that is still around in common use today" (though God knows why). I use the term "smokless" loosely. Stuff came out around the turn of the last century. Believe it or not, the powder chemists actually have managed to make some improvements in reloading technology in 100 years. "Since then, everything, EVERYTHING has been an improvement." True that. Heebs; I agree that this thread needs constructive suggestions too. If you are seeking an extremely consistent powder, I doubt you will find anything more consistent than the single-base extruded powders manufactured by Vihta Vouri. You have specified that the powder should fill most or all of the capacity under a 180. Without knowing your gun, barrel, OAL restrictions, feeding characteristics, etc, it would be impossible to give an exact load to meet your needs. However, I suspect that V.V. N340 or N350 will solve the problems you specified. You may experience more unburnt powder w/ N350 as well as greater muzzle flash and more perceived recoil (though less than with antique , er, Unique). My .40 Major loads for SV and Standard IPSC CZ use N320, N330, or Titegroup. I do not seek the same SD that you are seeking; my guns are extremely accurate even w/o a low SD & at 169 PF, I have not had an issue w/ the chronoman (yet). Good luch & please let us know what load you come up with (even if it does use Unique). Regards, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heebs Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 The gun I have is an STI edge 5 inch. Seems to like 1.160 OAL the best. Will feed shorter 98 % of the time. You know how Murphy shows up at just the wrong time. VV powders are hard to come by. Supply is limited. Once I find something that gives me the feel I like, I would be buying 8 lbs. Harmongreer What kind of length are you using? Just curious. Anybody out there use WST. I've heard from other sources that this works pretty well, but I don't see many on this forum use it. Thanks for the good info. Keep it coming. Heebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Heebs, If you are looking to make Major in 40 for USPSA, then vv320 and TiteGroup are the more common powders. 320 and TG both perform fantastic...low deviations. WST has some fans as well. If you are looking to fill the case with a fluffy powder, you will likely be going to a slower burning powder. Slower powders don't feel as soft...and likely won't perform any better than the above powders. If I were to go with something slower...I'd give HS6 a look (or the slower vv powder$). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I have used Winchester Super Field for about 12 yrs now. I don't see anything wrong with it. Unique does seem a bit dirty. Haven't used that powder in 20 yrs or so. I'm not worried about the deviation on my loads as long as they make major. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 If I were to go with something slower...I'd give HS6 a look (or the slower vv powder$). AUGH! Not HS-6. If anything is as bad as Unique, it's HS-6. It meters better than the old stuff, but it is dirty, dirty, dirty. I was running it in a .45 pin load. The Major 9 people tell me that it is fairly clean in a high pressure load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heebs Posted January 5, 2005 Author Share Posted January 5, 2005 Thanks for all the info. I guess I will spend some time with VV, WSF,WST, and Titegroup to see what I get. Still going to try Unique out of curiosity sake. I'll let you know what I get. Heebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 1.15 to 1.165 depending on bullet shape. i have loaded bullets from 155 grains to 220 grains in my glock w/o any signs of excess pressure.. I did notice the exteme spread started to open up a bit to around 45-50 fps with the 220 grain precisions..perhaps this is due to the flake type powder not metering as well as some of the smaller stuff. with 155 grain cast bullets, all the same brass(starline) and federal primers, i chronograped 10 rounds and the extreme spread for the 10 was 29 fps. with even more powder and speer 155 grain gold dots, the spread dropped to 23 fps. I shot some of the major power 155 grain JHPs at dusk today...man what a flash...i never really noticed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffwalsh Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 I'm just a revolver guy but I use unique with great results in a 40. I load a 180g rainier with 5.5 grains of unique. I get 980fps out of a 6 inch bbl. I don't have any problems with my chambers getting residue. This year a switched to 45 so I'm using 231.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GunF1Guy Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Has anyone tried the "new" Unique? I just got some for my shotgun and I noticed that it is now make in a totaly different country and plant. It also claims to be "cleaner burning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted January 6, 2005 Share Posted January 6, 2005 Has anyone tried the "new" Unique? I just got some for my shotgun and I noticed that it is now make in a totaly different country and plant. It also claims to be "cleaner burning". It wouldn't take much of a change to make it "cleaner burning". Yes I have tried it in 38 spl loads for the wife. It didn't look that much cleaner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heebs Posted January 6, 2005 Author Share Posted January 6, 2005 Thanks harmongreer, cliffwalsh and Scott peterson. I have some of the new Unique and it is quite noticable the difference in the lackof smoke in the 45 colt and 44 special loads. The 38 special loads are better. I thought that it might work in a .40 also. I have some loaded up, but when the temp is -2, the urge to run out to the range doesn't seem to be there. Maybe over the weekend I will give it a try. Cliff, nothing wrong with being a revolver guy. I have found that 231 might not be what you are looking for in a 45acp revolver. My experience has been not too favorable with 231 and lead bullets. Just my 2 cents worth. I use Bullseye with a 230 lead bullet. or WST with a 185 JWC. Clays is VERY clean with lead bullets, you just don't get the power you might need. In my 38 special steel loads, I can shoot well over 1500 rounds without cleaning the gun, its that clean, gun is tight also(old ppc gun. shoots 1" or less at 25 yds.). Like I said, my 2 cents worth? Keep the info coming Heebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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