MOR scopes

[bgary]

I might be thinking of putting new glass on the bolt rifle.

I'm familiar with the Leupold scopes, and like the Mk-4 M1 4.5-15x50 with mildot.

But a lot of people are raving about the Horus Vision scopes... so I looked at the Horus website, and looked at them.

Two questions:

-- aside from the reticle (which is no small thing), what makes the Horus scopes worth nearly twice as much buxx as the Leupolds? The Mk-4 runs about 850 or so... the Horus Falcon 1000 is 1300, the SuperFalcon is about 1500. Is it better glass? More durable? More... ???

-- three of the Horus scopes (the Model-1000 sporting, the Falcon-1000, the Super-Falcon) are 3-16x50. All say they are "built to the same standards". But.. the sporting scope can be had for a *lot* less money than, say, the Falcon-1000. Again, separate from the reticle, are there differences that I should know about?

Thanks,

Bruce

[davidwiz]

The Horus reticles can had on different scopes. The US Optics are very popular. The cool thing about them is that they are built pretty much to order, have a killer warranty and comparable in price to the Schmidt & Bender and Nighforce scopes w/ similar features.

I don't know who is building the scopes for Horus.

[Chriss Grube]

Bruce,

The Loopy's are great scopes but you need to check your prices.. the Mk 4's are over a grand now. They are second focal plane which means you can only range on one power.

I spoke with Mig at nats and he advised that the Loopy's are available with the HV reticle now. about 4-500 more than the standard loopy's. The USO's are the cats ass when it comes to scopes but like anything else you pay for it.

If you want to crank knobs between shoots get the regular loopy if you don't get an HV. Ask Matt B. I was one of the biggest opponents of the HV as being too cluttered. I finally tried one and for our games no way I'd go back to a regular reticle. If I have to only make one precise shot I'll still take a regular reticle but for multi shot scenarios the HV kicks butt. I would get a Loopy or USO with the HV reticle over the falcon series.

[smokshwn]

Bruce,

I just went through your exact dilemma. Now that I have had my HV scope for two weeks I will put my head on the tracks and say there is no other reticle more suited to multiple targets and multiple unknown ranges. I considered the proprietary Falcon scopes but I was leary as there was no stated manufacturer and I wondered how service would be. (rumor has it that it's Hakko)

Therefore choices were between buying a loopy and having the HV reticle installed or bite the bullet and spring for a USO. A local LEO/USO rep. had a SN3 3.2-17x44 tpal with an illuminated H25 reticle. I was just going to look at it, honest, but somehow the craftsmanship and quality hypnotized me and ink flew from my pen onto a check and yippee, Merry Christmas to me.

If you are budgeting for a MK 4 anyway, definitely get the Horus. If you can swing it, at least take a look through a USO and then decide.

Also to echo what CG said USO's service is second to none. As a matter of fact you can talk straight with the company pres. on Sniper's Hide as he is always lurking.

Good luck, Craig

[bgary]

Smokeshwn -

Yeah, sounds like we're on parallel tracks.

I *wish* I could go for the USO, but it is just more $$$ than I can get away with.

I know I can get a Leupold Mk4 (6.5-20x50) for under $900.

I think I can get a Nightforce (5.5-22x50) for about $1300

I read that I can get a Horus Falcon for about $1300 (their website)

What I don't know is

a) Whether the latter two are demonstrably better scopes (brighter, stronger, better definition, etc) than the Leupold, or

if they are equivalent in quality, support, etc... whether the HV reticle is worth 400 bucks.

bg

[smokshwn]

Bruce,

First, have you played with the reticle on HV's site? There is a tutorial/player on the menu page that lets you calc ranges and make shots with distance and wind variables. This should give you an idea on the usefulness of the reticle vs mil dots or scales like the NF.

It's a tough decision but I would still lean towards the HV reticle. So that takes you to either the leupy with the reticle install or the Horus Falcon. I think given the leupy warranty and service it would be a no brainer to get the leupy and the hv reticle. You may even be able to drop HV an email and inquire as to the possibility of installing a reticle in your scope at a later date. This would effectively let you make the big purchase in two parts.

Anyway, Good luck, keep us informed with what you are doin. Craig

[Chriss Grube]

Bruce, just checked the HV site. They list the Loopy's now but you have to call for a price.

[Mig]

.. whether the HV reticle is worth 400 bucks.

Bruce,

Yes . . . this year's MOR winner (Tate) won using the HV reticle and scope. He let me try it out and it is the way to go.

What do you want the scope to do for you? If its going to be used for MOR then the HV would be a wise choice. The best of both worlds would be the Leupold with the HV reticle. I think its worth the extra cash outlay.

Mig

[MattBurkett]

After getting trained up on the HV ret, there is nothing faster nor more accurate. Definetely worth the extra cash. FYI I don't get paid by them to say that either. I have taken 14 shooters that have never shot past 300 yards and gotten 1st round hits at 700 on a 12" plate with the HV ret using holdovers. Try doing that with a mil-dot - hell just try explaining the Mil-dot math to them and translate it into 1/4 clicks!

Take care,

Matt

[smokshwn]

Bruce,

Have you gotten the point yet!

Here's a link I thought you might be interested in.

Loopy Deal

Take care, Craig

[bgary]

Have you gotten the point yet! 

Yup.

Went up and played with a Leupold and a Nightforce side by side.

That pretty much talked me out of the Loopy

Then spent about a half hour on the phone with Wes, of Horus.

That pretty much talked me into the Falcon.

He told me that (until I mount it) I can play with it all I want, look at stuff thru it, etc, and if it isn't what I want I can send it back to him. He also said that their warranty support is same as Leupolds - if it fails, send it back and they'll fix it or replace it. Can't beat that, so... a Falcon with the H-25 reticle is on its way.

I'll post impressions when it arrives.

bg

[smokshwn]

Good job Bruce. I'm glad I wasn't the only idiot this month Now I just gotta get that damn Atrag software.

Take care, Craig

[bgary]

The Horus scope apparently comes with a CD of PC software. I figure I'll give that a good look before investing in the Atrag.

Besides, Im more likely to look for a Pocket-PC app than a Palm app, everything else being equal.

Bruce (the other idiot)

[Nate]

How often do you have to make shots in USPSA MOR that you do not have a pretty good Idea of the target range? Can you use a range finder during walk through? Is 600 yards the longest shot you have seen at a match?

[EricW]

Is there a way to use the Horus reticle (accurately) without the benefit of a computer, Palm or otherwise?

[bgary]

The Horus reticle has a range-finder scale built into it. If you know the height or width of the target, you can range it fairly accurately without coming up out of the scope.

And, the Horus reticle does not require a computer. The lines are on milli-radian ("mil") spacing, so... any technique you use now would work with this as well.

For example, if the range card taped to your buttstock says that your bullet drops some number of inches at the indicated range, you can either twist your dials up to compensate for that drop, or you can "hold high" the equivalent number of mils using the reticle.

What the software lets you do is enter *specific* environmental conditions (range, angle, wind, temp, humidity, baro-pressure, etc) and it will generate *specific* hold-over numbers for you. You can use that info on any scope, either by twisting the knobs or holding off with a mil-dot or other reticle.

The beauty (?) of the Horus reticle is that it gives you mil-spaced hold-off lines both horizontally and vertically. So, if you need to hold 5 mils high and 3 mils left to account for distance and wind, the Horus helps you do that accurately and repeatably.

(ObNote: I have not yet actually touched a Horus scope yet... the above is based on what I have been able to learn by reading and discussing them)

Bruce

[smokshwn]

Eric,

The Atrag software is acutally more a ballistic software program that can be of great universal use to any long range shooter. It just so happens you can also use it to get your range card right on the dime for an HV scope as well.

Craig