High Hit Factor Stages What Exactly are They?

[ZackJones]

I didn't want to hijack another thread and searching didn't tell me much so I thought I'd start a new topic.

What exactly is a High Hit Factor stage and conversely what's a Low Hit Factor stage? How can you tell the difference? How is your stage plan different for the two types of stages.

Thanks in advance for the education.

[Onagoth]

A high hit factor stage is a stage which is usually completed very fast. A 40 point stage that takes 4 seconds would be a hit factor stage in my view (HF = 10)

Contrast this to a 150 point stage which takes 30 seconds to complete. A 5 HF stage.

In terms of planning....it can affect whether or not you decide to make up a miss or a D and how fast you have to do it. On a Low HF stage, its much more easy to make up a miss. In the second example, if you can make up aa miss (15 points) with an A in under 3 seconds, you're better off. Conversely, on the high HF stage, you only have 1.5 seconds to make up that miss to be better off.

At higher levels, you should know whether or not you missed and make it up right away, whether or not its a high factor or low factor stage. This is something I am still working through

Edited April 3, 2014 by Onagoth

[Trent1k1]

Points divided by Time will let you know if it is a High or Low HF stage.

Onagoth described the mentality of how to approach them very well.

I don't think it is possible to say that all short courses (stand in a box) will be HHF and long field courses will be a low HF. If you add the available points up when looking at a course and start adding the time up to make those shots and the number of steps you need you can probably get a decent guess on the time it will take to do the course of fire.

for example using my skillset I would look at the following things.

Draw: 1.4 sec to a target at 7 yards. It should be faster, but it isn't yet. (Unloaded or awkward starts add more time)

splits-.25 seconds. 2 shots on that target.

I'm already approaching 2 seconds for the draw and engaging the first target.

For every 2 steps I take it is at least a second (old-fat guy)

Reload (should be able to do while moving, but for a stand in the box stage it is .7 to 1 second)

Add your splits for every other target and you can start to get an idea how fast YOU can do the stage.

5 targets (5 yards) all shot from one location.

1.2 draw

.25 split for the second shot and the first target is complete

.25 transition to the next target

.5 for two shots on that target

repeat.

This is roughly a 4 second stage for 50 possible points. (High Hit Factor) 12.5 or so.

Same stage with 16 steps and 3 shooting positions with targets spread out

The steps have added 8 seconds of running, (plus "setting" twice to acquire targets and engage)

This is a lower hit factor 50 points and at least 14 seconds 3.5 HF

Some of the better guys I shoot with break a stage down like this in their head and have a pretty decent idea what their time will be before they even Make Ready.

Hope this helps.

[Powder Finger]

40 pts 4 sec = 10 hf

25 pts 4 sec = 6.25 hf

40 pts 6.4 sec = 6.26 hf

2.4 sec difference to score better

[Chuck Anderson]

Courses with more trigger pulling than anything else are going to have higher hit factors. Think about all the things you do on a course other than pulling the trigger, draw, move, transition, reload. The less of that, the higher the hit factor. A stage with 16 rounds, maybe a step of movement and wide open targets will have a hit factor. The same 16 rounds separated by 50 yards of running, not so much. Things that slow down the shooting will result in a lower hit factor. Partial targets, targets at distance, steel, movers or activators you have to wait on, lots of movement etc.

The lower the hit factor, the more important hits are. On a 1 hit factor stage, you have 5 seconds to get an A zone hit. On a 10 hit factor, you have .5 seconds. If I'm running on a low hit factor stage and I see a miss on the last target, I'm loading if needed and making it up. On a high hit factor stage probably not a good idea.

The more you shoot the better feel you get for what a low and high hit factor stage is. I don't do the math when I look at a stage to decide how I'm going to shoot it. I just know if it's a lot of fast rounds, I need to emphasize speed. If the shooting is slow, I need to focus more on accuracy.

[ZackJones]

Thanks for the education, guys, I really appreciate it. I'll apply what you've told me in the match tomorrow and next week at the Area 6 match.

[Supermoto]

Shoot A's as fast as you can and let the HF fall where is does. Knowing if a stage is a high or low HF shouldn't change that

[Nimitz]

For the average rank and file shooter supermoto is correct ... Can you really alter your shooting during a match to shoot more accuractly on a low HF stage and crank it up for a high HF stage while still maintaining 90% points shot? A far more important goal for a match is to be able to call every shot. Once you can do that on command I would say you're ready to start worrying about LHF and HHF stage planning ...

[Trent1k1]

I think that for a C and D shooter, knowing when it is really important to get hits and especially not get zeros on a stage is very important.

N a perfect world. We would never miss, but recognizing through a stage with only 40 points that has noshoots on it is a recipe to zero for stage points is something people need to establish able to recognized.

A noshoots and Mike just cost 20 points in penalties as well as the lost 5 points for the alpha. If there are 165 points available that doesn't hurt asbad as ona40 point stage. The 90% speed is different on different types of stages, which iswhat ithink the OP. Question really was.

[lawboy]

High hit factor stage is one that allows a relatively high number of points to be shot per u it of time compared to other stages. That is how I conceptualize it. How many points per second are available on each stage.

[ZackJones]

I shot the Area 6 match this past weekend and placed 2nd in D class production. My son placed first. We were the only two D class shooters though .

Compared to the GM that won production I my match percentage was 45.228%.

For the 11 stages (the all steel stage was thrown out) that we shot I got the following hits:

A - 156

B - 5

C - 57

D - 9

M - 5

NS - 0

Match points available 1160. My points 975. Penalty points - 50. Percentage not including penalty points 84.05, percentage including them 79.74. Obviously I have lots to work on but I'm quite pleased that I didn't hit any no-shoots and two of my 5 mikes came on a swinger, the third came on a head only shot, and the 4th and 5th came on targets I tried to hit while moving so I know where I made my mistakes which I think was a valuable lesson to learn from the match.

[outerlimits]

This

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gdSJLPw7sdo

[caspian38]

http://zzpzz.com/uspsa/uspsa.htm

I was playing around today with stage math. It's a little rough on estimates as your real time will effect all the scores a bit, but for planning purposes I think it works ( haven't tried it yet ). Using a competitors time might be useful also.

I was blown away by how much time an FTE is actually worth. On most stages I can spend from five to ten seconds fixing it before its worth leaving. I also sometimes shoot an alpha trying to fix a delta ,and I won't be doing that again... Far as I can tell its about .6 of a second or less ,or its lowering your hit factor.

Hey if the math is wrong send me a PM ,or if you think I should include something that I forgot. This is just a rough draft ,and I plan on updating it as soon as I work out some bugs. Any help is appreciated.

I'll make a free app later if it's needed.

I linked the hit factor calculator to the orange logo on the bottom at zzpzz.com ( it's just my personal web page for junk I use a lot).

It might seem like I drifted the post but I think the easiest way to figure out the diffrence between HHF AND LHF is to play with the math.

Edited May 6, 2014 by caspian38

[Onagoth]

That's interesting and very technical analysis. I learned the hard way how much an FTE is worth...its very damaging to the overall HF.

[caspian38]

That's interesting and very technical analysis. I learned the hard way how much an FTE is worth...its very damaging to the overall HF.

It wasn't an analysis per say... It's a HF calculator and stage time/ HF estimator.

I just put in 100 points with a stage time of 14 seconds , and if you have a no penalty mike you have .74 of a second to make it up or its a waste of time/points. 9.33 for FTE

After looking at the math it almost seems more important for slower/newer shooters. Shoot a 100 point stage in 24 seconds and you have 16 seconds to fix an FTE before its not worth fixing. If your really (slow 44 sec )you have 29 seconds to fix it !

Looking for FTE's before I unload and show clear seems like a good idea. Especially on complex stages with limited movement.

Maybe I can start a trend ( RE-RUN). I'm sure running the stage in reverse and looking at every target with my gun up will go over great.

HHF and LHF don't seem as cut and dry as I thought.

Edited May 6, 2014 by caspian38

[Supermoto]

A shot in the black isn't a no penalty mike and shouldn't B and C have the same value for seconds. they are worth the same in points

[caspian38]

A shot in the black isn't a no penalty mike and shouldn't B and C have the same value for seconds. they are worth the same in points

Off topic but.... I just check the rules B AND C are both worth 4 points. I don't know if I'm stupid for not knowing that ,or if B AND C are stupid.

Thanks I would have never known!

Sorry to drift !

So about those HHF and LHF .....

[Therealkoop]

What does "alpha make up shot" mean?

Also, am I supposed to be typing in MY points and time, or total possible points?

Last thing, what is the a,b/c,d major(sec) and Minor(sec) chart represent?

[caspian38]

I started a new thread for the Hit factor calculator as I didn't want to drift this post any further.

Thanks

I'll answer over there if that's ok.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195001

[Nimitz]

Zack, the stage you were RO on at Area 6 would be a HHF stage ... As would stage 5 ....