Am I over thinking things?

[jayhkr]

Here I am, 2 full days into my new press of being here, my full 2 days off work and I have YET to produce one bullet. As some of you have read my issue lies with my bullets not freely turning inside my barrels. They sit flush, although I had to go WAY shorter then expected, primarily due to the coated SNS buets I'm using. Can't remember if they are the 124, or 125 gr. They jut won't turn smoothly like a jacketed bullet will. I had to go down to 1.108-1.110 for these to sit flush, with the exception of few pieces (must be brass related issue) So my question is am I over thinking things with this style bullet? Do these not freely turn like jacketed ones? I have my crimp set t just the SLIGHTEST of a "shiny ring" just below the mouth of the case. I'm hesitant to do anything now as nothing I'm doing is fixing it. I call Dillon and always seem to be last in line and have limited minutes on my cell. I MUST be making this more frustrating than it really is. Heck, I just dummy loaded 6 rounds, 5 of them werein the 1.107-1.110 but one cme in at 1.114 and I don't know why unless the case is that way. Even put it back through the sizing die and it still came out the sa e (just to be sure I didn't short stroke it). I want a beer but then things will start working and I don't want to load while drinking. Lol Someone tell me I'm over thinking things.

[Pasley]

You are most likely over thinking things.

I know that a lot of people here will disagree with me but your issues are one of the reasons that it is frequently recommended to start with a single stage press.

Drink a beer (or three) and think about what you have done. Get back into it tomorrow.

[Youngeyes]

1.114 instead of 1.110? You are way over thinking this. Why would you put it back through the sizing die? You also don't need a shiny ring around the case after crimping. You only need to take out the flair. No offense but you sound very unsure of how your press should work. See if someone is around that can come over and help you out. We all go through a learning curve the first time.

[rjacobs]

Ive never thought about trying to turn a loaded round in my chamber. If they chamber and you have no issues beyond that, roll on. If they dont chamber at all, figure it out(seating depth) and roll on.

[Steve RA]

I think you would find, if you go shoot them, that they will work quite well. I've always done the "plunk" test but never rotated the cartridges.

[bowenbuilt]

If the bullets do not freely rotate once in the chamber the bullet is still in contact with the rifling. That is why you always plunk and spin. Keep going deeper until they will freely rotate and then you are set. Don't worry about the OAL or seating too short. Every gun is a rule upon its self. If you want to seat them longer get a plated or jacketed round nose or get your chamber reamed to the length you want. Don't be overly concerned if you have to seat them a little deeper to make them chamber properly. Once you find the OAL for you particular gun then work up a safe load.

Edited February 28, 2014 by bowenbuilt

[G17]

As i mentioned the first thing you should be doing is determine what the max oal for that barrel and bullet is. Once you determine that you can rule out whether your oal is too long or it's a problem with the case. I think it's a problem with the case.

Again, here is the link

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.msg189131#msg189131

Do this, and get back to us with what you find.

[Hi-Power Jack]

first thing you should do is determine what the max oal for that barrel and bullet.

+1. That's the First Step in reloading. If that works, then you go on to Step 2.

[bowenbuilt]

I believe the moment they chamber and spin freely is the maximum OAL for the gun. Once done you measure and whatever the calipers read you found it. All you have to do is rotate the seating die stem a 1/16" at a time until you achieve success. Measure the OAL, write it down and you are done. When you change bullets you have to do it all over again. There is no need to make things more complicated than necessary.

[Nik Habicht]

Who cares how deep they are seated as long as they chamber properly?

When the gun goes kaboom from an overpressure situation, you might care.....

[bowenbuilt]

That is really not why I made that statement. The OP is being overly concerned about the type of bullet he is using seating deeper than the loading manual is stating. You have to read the whole statement for context. Now edited to make you happy.

Edited February 28, 2014 by bowenbuilt

[tbrtt1]

Have you measured your finished cartridges and compared that to the SAAMI specs? Are you sure that the bullet not turning is from the bullet and not the case/cartridge? I wouldn't rely on a shiny ring to determine my crimp (though this may be a good thing to look at once you get your press set up properly). Measure it. SAAMI specs are .380 at the mouth and that would be the max. What does yours measure? Most folks reloading 9mm aim for .376-.378 range. I like my around .378. I would also use the same headstamp brass for getting your measurements set up (you may already be doing this).

Your range of OALs seem OK to me.

Are your calipers good? Got the right resizing die in there? Just food for thought.

Your problem does seem strange if you load jacketed and they pass the plunk test but these do not. Maybe just don't use those bullets.

Here is a link to SAAMI specs:

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

[tbrtt1]

Check out this thread. Someone else seems to be having some SNS issues.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=170158

Oops I see you already discovered that thread.

Edited February 28, 2014 by tbrtt1

[Sarge]

NIK does have a point. No offense to the OP but we are talking to a very inexperienced loader here. We can't just keep telling him to bury the bullet deeper and deeper without considering lowering the powder charge. If he is using one of those little fat headed sns bullets then he is going to have to go mighty short to make it work. The 124 rn looks like it goes out pretty far before starting to curve.

The easiest thing to do is make a dummy and keep shortening it until it spins freely in the chamber and work out from there. Crimp to about .375-376, don't worry about a shiny ring, just remove the bell like youngeyes suggests and throw your calipers on there. Reloading quality, safe, accurate ammo is an acquired skill and takes some practice.

Keep us updated on your progress and we will help you every step of the way.

[Nebwake]

As long as you dont have to push the bullet to fully seat in the chamber, and then it will fall out freely you are fine (plunk test). I would start long (SAAMI max) on a dummy (no primer or powder) and then make sure it drops into the chamber as stated above. Then make sure they work in your mags. Also as stated in a few posts, check the overall dims of your rounds and make sure they are matching with SAAMI (you have a few books right? Lyman, Speer, Hornady ect?). Maybe also ditch the lead bullets while you are learning and get some regular FMJ, RN ect. to learn on as they are a bit more forgiving in the loading process.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Nebwake

[bowenbuilt]

Both my XD and XDm had very short chambers. I had to seat most any bullet that was not a plated or jacketed round nose down to 1.090 to get them to pass the plunk test before I had the barrels throated. A slight reduction in powder was all it took and they both shot well at this OAL. It's a lot easier to just accept that the gun has a short chamber and load for it than let it frustrate you and shut you down. neither gun shot any better throated than before. The easiest cure for the whole situation here would be as stated above, change the bullet to a different type and the problem is solved.

[jayhkr]

You are most likely over thinking things. I know that a lot of people here will disagree with me but your issues are one of the reasons that it is frequently recommended to start with a single stage press. Drink a beer (or three) and think about what you have done. Get back into it tomorrow.

Wouldn't I still have the same issues on a single press though? I understand the process, so I don't think it would be different from a single stage to a progressive. I'm not worring about powder or primers, just trying to get the OAL settled in the barrel. But yes, I am taking a break for a bit, went to dinner with the wife, got a new laptop and water heater (what a combo huh!?) Thank you though.

[Sarge]

Laptop and a water heater! Laughed out loud at that one!

[jayhkr]

1.114 instead of 1.110? You are way over thinking this. Why would you put it back through the sizing die? You also don't need a shiny ring around the case after crimping. You only need to take out the flair. No offense but you sound very unsure of how your press should work. See if someone is around that can come over and help you out. We all go through a learning curve the first time.

The reason I put it back throught the die was to be sure I didn't do a short stroke on it not seating it to the proper depth is all. It was suggested to put the tiniest bid of ring on it. It still measures to .377 so I think I'm good. I know HOW the press works, I understand what each station accomplishes, but I'm confused on why the data says one thing and I'm having to be tons under that, which to my understanding increases pressure inside the case. That's what's worrying me more than anything is increasing the pressure. That and why the darn bullet won't turn in the barrel. The closest person willing to help me out is a guy on another forum that lives 4 hours away.

[jayhkr]

Ive never thought about trying to turn a loaded round in my chamber. If they chamber and you have no issues beyond that, roll on. If they dont chamber at all, figure it out(seating depth) and roll on.

Just curious, the way I check if they chamber is load a few dummy rounds in the mag with the slide already back then release the slide as normal making sure it slams forward. I've done this and they all do just fine. Only issues I've had is when I don't let the slide slam forward.

[jayhkr]

I think you would find, if you go shoot them, that they will work quite well. I've always done the "plunk" test but never rotated the cartridges.

Thank you but it seems other people think this is wrong....so many ideas and descripencies it gets confusing. Thank you though!

[jayhkr]

If the bullets do not freely rotate once in the chamber the bullet is still in contact with the rifling. That is why you always plunk and spin. Keep going deeper until they will freely rotate and then you are set. Don't worry about the OAL or seating too short. Every gun is a rule upon its self. If you want to seat them longer get a plated or jacketed round nose or get your chamber reamed to the length you want. Don't be overly concerned if you have to seat them a little deeper to make them chamber properly. Once you find the OAL for you particular gun then work up a safe load.

So even if I'm down to 1" you're saying that's ok? Not going to have any bullet exposed if I go much shorter! The minimum grain recommended for 1.125" is 3.2gr with titegroup I think. Shoud I go less than that or stick to that minimum gr?

[jayhkr]

As i mentioned the first thing you should be doing is determine what the max oal for that barrel and bullet is. Once you determine that you can rule out whether your oal is too long or it's a problem with the case. I think it's a problem with the case. Again, here is the linkhttp://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.msg189131#msg189131 Do this, and get back to us with what you find.

Read it, tried it, the bullet didn't seat any deeper. I flaired the mouth, seated the bullet and pushed it in until it was even with the top of the barrel, but when I go to remove the bullet, it either pulls it back out to the original depth or something else because I don't get any different of a reading OAL wise when I do this. Thanks for the link though, very informative.

[jayhkr]

I believe the moment they chamber and spin freely is the maximum OAL for the gun. Once done you measure and whatever the calipers read you found it. All you have to do is rotate the seating die stem a 1/16" at a time until you achieve success. Measure the OAL, write it down and you are done. When you change bullets you have to do it all over again. There is no need to make things more complicated than necessary.

That's the issue, I can't get them to rotate freely. I'll keep working on it though. Thank you.

[jayhkr]

Have you measured your finished cartridges and compared that to the SAAMI specs? Are you sure that the bullet not turning is from the bullet and not the case/cartridge? I wouldn't rely on a shiny ring to determine my crimp (though this may be a good thing to look at once you get your press set up properly). Measure it. SAAMI specs are .380 at the mouth and that would be the max. What does yours measure? Most folks reloading 9mm aim for .376-.378 range. I like my around .378. I would also use the same headstamp brass for getting your measurements set up (you may already be doing this). Your range of OALs seem OK to me. Are your calipers good? Got the right resizing die in there? Just food for thought. Your problem does seem strange if you load jacketed and they pass the plunk test but these do not. Maybe just don't use those bullets. Here is a link to SAAMI specs:http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

My spec at the mout has been reading between .377-.378. I did see that different headstamps gave me way different readings and some of them didn't even pass the case gage AT ALL. My calipers are the digital ones from cabelas and the measured the factory ammo just fine. Sizing die was preinstalled at the factory from Dillon for the SDB. (FOOOOOD!) I wish it was a simple as not using them, but I have 1,000 of them and can't really return them. Thank you for the link and feedback!