where to start if you have acceptable accuracy?

[MetropolisLake]

I guess I always assumed that the vast majority of training involved learning how to shoot more accurately. But what do you do when you apparently and suddenly realize that you're "accurate enough" with USPSA type targets, in fact probably too accurate in terms of getting a good score, and are instead suffering greatly in the speed department? I was at the very top of the accuracy department in terms of hit points at a recent match, but near the bottom once speed was factored in for the hit factor.

Problem is, I don't know where I'm slow. I even felt like I was going fast, too fast, to the point where my accuracy was sub-par. Apparently not. It's friggin weird. I don't know if I'm burning up time between targets, between reloads, between shots, not having a good stage plan, or what. I'm sure it's all of the above, and experience and a general training plan will help with all of the above, but what do you tackle first if you were going to specifically train to improve speed, if your accuracy is already acceptable?

I don't know where to start, as this is turning out to be the exact opposite of what I expected. Not necessarily looking for a shortcut per se, but I am in fact wondering if there is any single very important training aspects that can offer quicker gains for overall score as it relates to the speed department than others. Which, I suppose is a shortcut, isn't it.

[LilBunniFuFu]

Have you ever had any one record you while running a stage?

Once you can see what you are doing and review it then you will be able to see what you can work on.

It helps to remember what you experienced during a stage so you know what you felt while you review it.

It also helps to have videos of better shooters running the same stages to see where you "messed" up on, be it planning of execution.

I know it doesn't answer your question but it might give a better idea of how to help.

Edited January 31, 2014 by LilBunniFuFu

[Hi-Power Jack]

Have you ever had any one record you while running a stage?

It also helps to have videos of better shooters running the same stages

+1. Or, ask scorekeeper for times of each shot - how long before you broke the 1st shot,

how long was your reload, etc.

Or, go to the range with a timer, and time yourself shooting an El Presidente ...or any other

Standard COF. Then get on the internet and find out what times people are shooting for that

Standard COF.

[jkrispies]

As mentioned above, I'd say the most helpful thing for me has been to video record a GM shooting the same stage that I shot as well. By doing this, you will see where the GM is "cutting corners" to increase his speed. (In other words, you'll learn how the GM stage plans properly vs. how you did it for a slower time.)

Another option, assuming you're willing to take a beating in the ego department, is to film yourself shooting what you perceive to be a really great stage or training session and then posting it here for review. The reason I suggest posting a "great" run for review is that if you put up one with obvious mistakes then you're liable to get obvious critiques. On the other hand, if folks see something that you're otherwise blind to, then it's likely to provide you with an "a-ha moment" which will result in a greater effect on your overall shooting.

Edited February 1, 2014 by jkrispies

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Good advice here amigo.

My thought is don't think of yourself as too accurate. Keep that as a strength and now work on shooting sooner and spending less time not shooting.

Also just go with it bro, keep that accuracy and just keep training and shooting matches. Just don't fall into the trap of "trading off" accuracy for speed.

[juan]

run the blake drill record all shots look at splits and transitions

[JeffWard]

Have you ever had any one record you while running a stage?

Once you can see what you are doing and review it then you will be able to see what you can work on.

It helps to remember what you experienced during a stage so you know what you felt while you review it.

It also helps to have videos of better shooters running the same stages to see where you "messed" up on, be it planning of execution.

I know it doesn't answer your question but it might give a better idea of how to help.

EXACTLY! Get video. I found so many speed-leaks in my movement. Lowering the gun between arrays, extra steps at the start, and not shooting when I could have been while moving.

JW

[Nimitz]

video is great advice but you how are your stand and shoot skills? Most people neglect training to shoot accurately at speed while standing still before worrying about moving and shooting accurately at speed. I think if you do some stand and shoot drills and check your times/HF you may find that moving "faster" ain't your current problem ....

Take a look at Ben Stoeger's "ten drills to master". They are all stand and shoot drills and if you can't get near the listed goal times then movement ain't your issue ....people think that if they can just learn to move better on a CoF they will be 'faster' and while there are certainly many things people do which make their times slower, in point of fact they have not yet learned to shoot accurately at speed ....which is THE fundamental USPSA shooting skill to master ....

I thought I had the same problem as you since I could shoot 90% pts at a match .... turns out that's not my issue as I had not learned to shoot accurately at speed ....

A little 'help' from a couple of forum members here plus a class with Ben put me on the right path .... my progress was amazing once I started down that road ...

[MetropolisLake]

I feel like at this point my biggest problem is being overwhelmed. I've got 100 things going through my head... don't sweep your arm, watch the 180, don't blow your foot off when drawing, mag change coming up, don't trip, did I hit that target well? Maybe one more shot just to make sure... too much to process and everything I do ends up being slow. Need more experience more than anything. Plus it feels really weird being totally cool with slinging lead in the general direction of a target and being happy with a sub-par hit due to being able to shave off a bunch of time since you did that. Need to not be so OCD about it, plus more experience will reveal which targets I can make gains with by doing this I suppose.

Guess I'll be hitting some of these drills as a start.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=96029

[Nimitz]

Yes, this sport is overwhelming unless you break it down ."

For dry fire you got the right answer, Ben's 15 min a day program really works!

Take up his 10 stand and shoot drills for a month or so and see what happens

As the TGO once said. "Shooting accuractly is meatless if you can't do it fast " ... And notice nowhere in that advice did he say anything about moving faster .... You have to learn to shoot faster ....

Until I learned that you cannot decouple accuracy and speed I really wasn't getting any better ....

[Givo08]

I second the Ben Stoeger dry fire book. I was more of a turtle starting out in this sport (accurate but slow) and did a lot of dry fire and 10 yards and closer drills working specifically on transitions between targets (easy targets, hard targets, near to far, far to near, etc). I still do a lot of shooting at 25-50 yards to maintain proficiency at distance, but for the past 6 months I've focused more on improving my movement and transitions.

[captain037]

Remember the old military saying, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Practice bring smooth, eliminate anything that wastes movement. Speed will increase quickly with that. Many shooters never eliminate wasted movement.

Plan a stage two ways and decide which is faster. Be willing to think outside the box and then execute.

Remember, if you can't do it slow, you really can't do it fast. Consistency is key.

[lknbigfish]

some good advice here

[doc38]

I am just starting out, too. Unclassified as yet. I can easily shoot all Alphas. I can even get through stages that required no movement about as fast as the really good shooters. I just suck at moving.

Being 45 yo, fat, and stiff from a lot of hard manual labor in years past works against me. The best encouragement I ever got came from a real old timer. He said " You can't miss fast enough to win" The way I look at it, Coming to this game already old, slow and fat just gives me the incentive to do two things. One, get technically perfect. No wasted movement. Nothing but Alphas. Second, get in better shape. I shoot revolver, too, which forces me to slow down and make good hits. I tend to " get excited" when I shoot 1911 or Cz. My plan is to just practice each element until I have it down cold. Get in better shape, and One day, of I live long enough, I will be a master or GM. This game is SIMPLE. it is not EASY. GO as fast as you can shoot well, and get faster all the time. That and magic diet pills!

[juan]

I am just starting out, too. Unclassified as yet. I can easily shoot all Alphas. I can even get through stages that required no movement about as fast as the really good shooters. I just suck at moving.

Being 45 yo, fat, and stiff from a lot of hard manual labor in years past works against me. The best encouragement I ever got came from a real old timer. He said " You can't miss fast enough to win" The way I look at it, Coming to this game already old, slow and fat just gives me the incentive to do two things. One, get technically perfect. No wasted movement. Nothing but Alphas. Second, get in better shape. I shoot revolver, too, which forces me to slow down and make good hits. I tend to " get excited" when I shoot 1911 or Cz. My plan is to just practice each element until I have it down cold. Get in better shape, and One day, of I live long enough, I will be a master or GM. This game is SIMPLE. it is not EASY. GO as fast as you can shoot well, and get faster all the time. That and magic diet pills!

but you can shoot slow enough to lose

[jkrispies]

I can easily shoot all Alphas. I can even get through stages that required no movement about as fast as the really good shooters. I just suck at moving.

I know how you feel. These days my dry fire plan of attack--albeit a bit paradoxical to the name of "dry fire"--is to emphasize NOT pulling my trigger in practice. I'll save that for the range. In my daily dryfire, it's really more about maximizing (and/or "smoothing") footwork and getting the sights onto (and staying on) target as efficiently as possible. Basically, if the title of the dryfire drill doesn't have "while moving" in the name, I'm not going to spend much time on it.