Loading Mixed Brass and Then Sorting after Reloading?

[mjohn]

If mixed brass were to be reloaded to produced a completed round, would there be any difference in the OAL of like brass head stamps if the completed bullets were then sorted by head stamp after a complete bullet was produced?

Has anyone done this? Are the results different than sorting by like head stamp before reloading?

Just curious!

[blairmckenzie1]

rifle or pistol?

[mjohn]

Sorry.................pistol

[juan]

all i shoot is mixed brass overall length is the same

[56hawk]

Overall length shouldn't change, but the crimp might. I sort some revolver brass by head stamp before I load and readjust seating and crimp. Don't find much difference for semi auto brass since it's taper crimped instead of roll crimped.

[Sarge]

oal does change with headstamps. as for the actual question I would guess if you run mixed headstamps on the press, like headstamps will still not be exactly the same because the the tool head will be interacting differently. But that's just a guess.

[TonyK]

I am pretty new to all of this and all I have ever done is run mixed brass through my 650. And I will admit that I probably double check OAL far more than you guys that have done this a long time and I have never found a significant difference in OAL between different headstamps.

I have noticed differences as cases go into the resizing die or feed onto the powder funnel, some are tighter than others, and in the ease in which primers seat in the cases but in all of these instances the rounds come out pretty darn consistent in OAL.

While I can't argue that it is possible for the brand of brass to have an effect on OAL, just how much difference is typical? And at what point is it truly going to have an adverse effect on your rounds?

So far I have found that differences of even .01 to .02 have next to no effect on how rounds feed or fire in my 45. Minor differences in velocity but nothing that adversely effects range rounds.

[Steve RA]

Personally, I'd rather sort by brand first. Using mixed may not have much effect on OAL, but, the case capacities vary and I think the end result is more uniform by loading all the same brand. I just use one brand in .45 and one brand in 9mm and one for .223.

I'd be the first to admit that I don't shoot as much as I once did and if you go thru 2,500 rounds per week it could be a little more difficult to do it the way I outlined above.

[razorfish]

If you're going to sort pistol brass by head stamp, the time to do it is BEFORE loading. Everything goes much smoother when you load the same head stamp of brass. Again, if you're taking the time to sort, it's best to eliminate any potential problems BEFORE they get to your press.

With that said, when loading for pistol, I don't generally sort by head stamp, but when I do, loading is much less "problematic". I assume I don't need to detail the virtues of loading and shooting the same brand of brass.

Plus it simply saves time if you minimize any potential brass issues before they get to the press. Here's how I do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpkUnUqMo8U

Again, just my opinion... your mileage may vary.

[Blankenhole]

After struggling with OAL issues there shortly and doing as Sarge and Steve suggested I too would say sort before loading. It does make the process that much smoother,

[steel1212]

Oal does change with headstamp. Sort before.

[Steve RA]

I sort like the video - with one exception. Instead of turning the container over on a board, I just put another container on top of the first and invert them. Only difference is that you can't knock the whole 50 off the board if they are in the container. Sorting is exactly the same after that except you can move the container around to your hearts content without dumping brass all over the bench or floor. (although you can't turn it upside down )

[Reinz]

I sort while inspecting the brass after tumbling. It doesn't take anymore time.

[BeerBaron]

how can OAL change with headstamp? think about it. bullet seat depth is set by the seating die. you could have a case that is 1mm taller than the rest, but the bullet will still be set at the same height by the seat die so OAL will be the same... think about how the press seats the bullet. the relationship between the shell plate and the tip of the bullet is the same. unless the case becomes actually longer than your desired OAL then it won't make a difference.

once thing it does change is case volume. and that does effect consistency of the round performance. but not enough for most of us to worry about in pistol stuff. we are not shooting benchrest at 200 yards. if we're shooting USPSA etc then we are hardly ever shooting further than 25yards...

[juan]

I agree

[Sarge]

how can OAL change with headstamp? think about it.

I have done more than think about it. I have proven it repeatedly. I have tried to figure it out but can't so I no longer care why it happens. I just know that if you load 100 XXX headstamp and 100 XXX different headstamp the oal IS different.

You may be right that it probably doesn't mean much for USPSA but it does make for much better consistency over the chrono. And that does mean a lot in my opinion.

[mjohn]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The chrono results are the reason why I asked the question. I will not be able to load any new ammo before attending a match where a chrono will be in use and I do not want to have a problem with the chrono because I used mixed brass. The only difference between my match loads and chrono loads are that the match loads are made with sorted brass and that gives me a +6 PF factor.

[RDA]

how can OAL change with headstamp? think about it. bullet seat depth is set by the seating die. you could have a case that is 1mm taller than the rest, but the bullet will still be set at the same height by the seat die so OAL will be the same... think about how the press seats the bullet. the relationship between the shell plate and the tip of the bullet is the same. unless the case becomes actually longer than your desired OAL then it won't make a difference.

I have thought about it as well and I would assume the same, but I know that I get a greater standard deviation on OAL with mixed brass than I do with the same headstamp. My theory is that that different brands of brass can have different case neck tension (this can affect OAL as the bullet seating will be impacted) and different brass case thickness (which can also affect OAL in bullet seating). We are only talking plus or minus a few thousands or so, it doesn't take much in my opinion to increase the OAL variance.

Personally, I don't really care, more than 99% of my pistol shooting is 25 yards or less. Sort, don't sort, do what works for you.

[TonyK]

I am willing to bet that the AVERAGE shooter handed 25 rounds of mixed headstamp and 25 rounds of the same headstamp rounds, all loaded by the same guy on the same press, is not going to be able to tell the difference in how they shoot.

Of course the chrono can see it but just as our guns are more accurate than we are, the chrono is more sensitive than any human.

If you are loading right on the edge of power factor for a match then maybe you should sort by headstamp or better yet just bump up the fps a touch and you won't have a problem nor are you likely to notice the difference.

We can be overly concerned with details if we choose but I reload so I can enjoy my hobby more, not so I can worry about 15 fps, a minor difference in power factor or 10 thousandths in OAL.

[KSH]

I am willing to bet that the AVERAGE shooter handed 25 rounds of mixed headstamp and 25 rounds of the same headstamp rounds, all loaded by the same guy on the same press, is not going to be able to tell the difference in how they shoot.

Of course the chrono can see it but just as our guns are more accurate than we are, the chrono is more sensitive than any human.

If you are loading right on the edge of power factor for a match then maybe you should sort by headstamp or better yet just bump up the fps a touch and you won't have a problem nor are you likely to notice the difference.

We can be overly concerned with details if we choose but I reload so I can enjoy my hobby more, not so I can worry about 15 fps, a minor difference in power factor or 10 thousandths in OAL.

If your at the bottom of Power Factor 15 fps can affect accuracy and if your at the top of Power Factor decreasing OAL by 10 thousands can cause issues.

Luckily my guns like mid range Power Factors, but I still sort my brass.

JMO

[TonyK]

So far in all my test rounds 10 thousandths less OAL only changes fps by about 10 fps (chrono results off numerous powders through my 1911's loaded with the same powder and bullet but intentionally different OAL's) Any issue at 25 yards and less or while shooting on the move is going to be virtually unnoticeable, so what issues are you talking about? Feed issues with your particular gun notwithstanding.

And how much does 15fps effect accuracy at minimum Power factor? My inaccuracy can be blamed on the shooter not the loads

How about some facts and figures that back up these statements? Just how much does 15fps effect accuracy of a gun fired free hand at 15 yards?

The temperature alone can cause a variance of 15fps so who loads with temperature in mind? (This doesn't include you guys in the really frozen part of the world who have to consider the temperature!) How you operate your press, the powder drop or how your press is set up can all cause a variance of at least 15fps.

There are tons of variables we can't control and yes these minor differences will effect things but the effect is so miniscule it takes a microscope to find them. Or a Ransom Rest...

The point I am trying to make is that worrying about these little things is like arguing how many angels fit on the head of a pin.

If the fine points of this hobby are important to you, nothing wrong with that at all. For me I just want to use up the rounds I load at the range!