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38 Short Colt, 158/160gr bullet, Tightgroup. Will it work, where to s


mcb

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Long Colt is the one true path...lol

Looks like I wont be testing anything this weekend.

I ordered 1000 cases of Long Colt brass from starline last week, box arrived yesterday, too bad it's filled with 38 S&W Cases.... WTF starline?!

When you make the change, I'll be happy to buy and take the short colt brass off of your hands.

ill shoot you a pm if the time comes

Edited by alecmc
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Long Colt is the one true path...lol

Looks like I wont be testing anything this weekend.

I ordered 1000 cases of Long Colt brass from starline last week, box arrived yesterday, too bad it's filled with 38 S&W Cases.... WTF starline?!

I wonder if the LC Case will still be thin walled enough to give you trouble? There's a thread on cutting 38 special down to .900, about like a Super. With brass lasting a good while in a Revolver and being able to set the length to use an existing cannelure, might be something to consider.

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I wondering if it's my titanium cylinder causing sticky chambers on 38 short colt recipies to work fine in other peoples guns.

I havent done any research yet on it, -- could the chambers be slightly undersized or something?

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Did polishing the chambers work?

I've machined a bunch of titanium and it has some rather "unique" properties. It's not really hard but tough as all get out. It bends easily and is absolutely fantastic about returning to original form. The only way to prevent this is to hot form it. I wonder if it's not expanding around the case when fired and then "clamping" back down on it when the pressure subsides. I doubt this would be much of an issue in the 625s vs. guns chambered in .357 or .40 and maybe 9mm? I'm torn on waiting for a 929 or grabbing a 627. I'd really like to have the Ti cylinder as long as it actually works for us.

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I have two 625's w/ Ti cylinders and two 7 shot L frame's w/ Ti cylinders that I had all coated with Birdsong Black T. That totally did away with any sticking and cleaning is a breeze. In fact Birdsong said to stay away from even brass brushes and just use an oily patch. I'll throw that out there, maybe it will be of help.

For 38 short colt I've been using:

2.9 grains of Titegroup

160 grain Bayou bullets

OAL of 1.169

Out of a six inch 586 w/ Ti cyl. I get 126 PF ave.

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Thanks for the tips guys, But i've abandoned the short colt cases and sold them all off and moved over to starline 38 long colt. I'm using clays , which I have an abundance of, and 160 grain bayou bullets and so far i'm very happy with the results.

I dont know how you guys are comfortable with 126-128 power factor out of the short colt cases ( unless it's icore only ) -- That's wayyy to close to the razors edge for me to ever want to take it to a level 2 and up match. The load I have now is 135-138 power factor, which is a nice buffer.

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The load I have now is 135-138 power factor, which is a nice buffer.

I am hitting that PF range with short colts and MG 142-gr. bullets. It's an extraordinarily clean-burning load, and the moonclips pop out easily. Three of us shot the exact same load through our 5" 627s at the WSSRC at Rio Salado earlier this month, and we all chronoed between 136 and 139.

So personally, I don't understand the attraction to long colts, or cut-down "mid-colts" or any of that stuff. The way I see it, if you're not going to take advantage of the full benefit of the short colt, you might as well just stick with .38 Spl brass and keep your life simpler.

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I wondering if it's my titanium cylinder causing sticky chambers on 38 short colt recipies to work fine in other peoples guns.

Alec, you had no trouble hitting 133 with good extraction when you tried N320. The problem is you kept trying over and over and over to make short colt work using the wrong frickin' powder! (Clays is great for .45 ACP, but not much else.)

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Mike,

I have no doubt that your 147 gr short colt loads work good, For me though, It just came down to what I already had, and product availability.

I already have a few cases of 160 grain bayou bullets, and about 10 pounds of Clays... So I really wanted to make that work. Finding other powders to experiment with , as you know, would be like finding a pink unicorn. So, since the long colt cases were readily available to ship, I decided to give that a whirl, with nationals around the corner, and various area and sectional matches I just wanted to be done with the R&D process and start practicing with THE load I will be using.

The 133 PF load with N320 was pretty good, except for some primer flow. Problem there though, I'm low on N320 and I like to use that for my steel challenge loads.

I did not notice to big of a difference in my reloads between the long colts and the short colts, I think I was loading about 1.18-1.20 with short colts, and i'm now loading 1.37 with the long colts, so it is not that big of a length difference.

Who knows, maybe i'll revisit the short colts in the future when powder and stuff becomes more readily available, but for now i'll stick with the long colts.

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  • 5 months later...

Not to bring this thread back from the dead too much, but I was successfully able to make my 158gr flat points work with 3.1 grains of Titegroup seated to 1.12". My chrono has a .223 hole in it so I will have to check on the power factor later, though. The last time I checked, 3.0 at 1.14" did not make minor.

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Okay got out to the range on and this is what I tried.

All these loads are with Bayou 160 gr loaded to 1.175" oal shot out of a 627 pro

Red Dot 3.1gr:

max 857

min 756

avg 799

es 101

sd 31

avg pf 127.5

This load felt really good, not to snappy, and really not to dirty. There is definitely room to push this up a bit for more pf.

Clays 3.0gr :

max 846

min 806

avg 822

es 40

sd 12

avg pf 131.5

This was the most consistent load of the day; however, it was difficult to extract and I was seeing some pressure signs. It was also the smokiest load of the day. I'd bump it down a bit if I was going to run Clays.

Tight Group 3.1 gr:

max 858

min 799

avg 831

es 59

sd 16

avg pf 131.5

This was the snappiest load of the day, but it was the second most consistent. That being said I had unburnt powder residue in the cylinder afterwards, so if I went with TG I would bump it down a little.

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I am surprise you see unburnt powder in the Titegroup loads. I have finally settled on 3.3 grains of titegroup under a 160gr IbejiHead at a slightly longer OAL of 1.19. It makes a 140PF and mine come out pretty clean with no unburnt powder.

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I must be off a tick?.... I've tried the .358 x 160 Bayou's & Billy bullets at different OAL's/crimps.... Frontier's 147/158 @.357. I'm using a taper crimp die. I'm not getting sticky ejection but the fired shells hardly drop out either. I've polished the cylinder, at the 1st/2nd reload some resistance is felt. I'm using Starline 38 special cut down to short colt brass length. None of the various loads crooned over 130/140 with titegroup. I've tried some autocomp powder, no improvement to rave about. Can anyone give me the polished cylinder dimensions?... Maybe I'm too tight?.. I've got the snap gauges for measuring the cartridge/cylinder bore.

Edited by mike NM
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