mcb Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 So I finally got some 38 Short Colt cases and getting ready to start loading. Could use some help getting started. First a bullets My supply of bullets is all 158 or 160 gr lead or coated lead. Should I even try these in Short Colt? I have a fresh 4lb container of Titegroup. It seems from a little research that a light load of it (~3.0 grains) might work. Is Titegroup going to be dirty in Short Colt? Is this a good starting load? What OAL do you guys load too? I will be reloading on my Dillon 650XL. I am going to size with a 38 Special die in station 1. Use the 38 special flare/funnel in station 2. I am going to use a 38 ACP seat/crimp die with the seating post over extended to seat but not crimp in station 4. In station 5 I am going to use a 9mm seat/crimp die with the seat post remove to crimp the cases. How much crimp am I going to want? My guess is just remove the bell with little or no crimp. Any other suggestion from those already loading 38 Short Colt? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almostold Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 From my recent 650 / 38 short cold experience, I had to use the 9mm flare/funnel - the 38spl is too short to flare properly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I noticed that Dillon has a conversion kit for 38 Short Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I use a RCBS single stage, but I size with .38 spcl, and flare and taper crimp with 9mm dies. I'm shooting a 160 grn Bayou Bullets with 3.0 grns of Clays. Gun runs very clean. I experimented with Tightgroup, but it was way to snappy for me. The Clays hits very soft and I'm making 136pf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I use a RCBS single stage, but I size with .38 spcl, and flare and taper crimp with 9mm dies. I'm shooting a 160 grn Bayou Bullets with 3.0 grns of Clays. Gun runs very clean. I experimented with Tightgroup, but it was way to snappy for me. The Clays hits very soft and I'm making 136pf OAL " ?? Im currently using n320 with 160 bayous. 38 size die. 9mm everything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) 3.0 Titegroup with 160 Bayou gives 135 pf for me. 3.2 with a 158 Berry Plated. 1.160 oal. Using a strong Taper Crimp unless your bullets have a crimp groove/cannelure. Go too deep with oal and the case will bulge, causing issues with seating in the cylinder. I liked Titegroup in 38 short colt, accurate, clean burning, metered well. Only issue may be heating up the gun quickly, does it in a 45 but haven't used enough in a 38. Though I did use it for first few years with a 4" M29 and never had issues. Just wish I had 4 lbs of it . Use the 9mm powder drop. Edited January 18, 2014 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'm running 1.170 OAL with 160 Bayous. You really won't like the Titegroup with lead. Coated might not be too bad, but you better be shooting outdoors WITH a wind for plain lead. Otherwise the fire department might get called for all the smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I use a RCBS single stage, but I size with .38 spcl, and flare and taper crimp with 9mm dies. I'm shooting a 160 grn Bayou Bullets with 3.0 grns of Clays. Gun runs very clean. I experimented with Tightgroup, but it was way to snappy for me. The Clays hits very soft and I'm making 136pf OAL " ?? Im currently using n320 with 160 bayous. 38 size die. 9mm everything else 1.197 OAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 How long are the bullets you're using? I have some Xtreme 158gn flat points and if seated to the cannelure they're about 1.06" OAL. No bulging, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 If you use the cannelure and seat at 1.06 I would bet you will have high pressure and I would recommend not to seat that deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I think we are all taper crimping 38 short colt. You shouldn't have to worry about crimping at the cannelure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 How long are the bullets you're using? I have some Xtreme 158gn flat points and if seated to the cannelure they're about 1.06" OAL. No bulging, though. .740 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I use 160 grain Billy Bullets with 3.2 grains of Solo 1000. Great load and very accurate. A better bullet is my cast LBT 185 grain sized .357. In a .38 case they will group into 1 - 1.5 inches at 25 yards using my Red Dot on my 627. All this with Fed SP primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) I've only got a minor load down with 125s, and one thing with them is if I get the taper way into the canellure it's a little bit slicker trying to feed the little guys into the chambers. I still haven't nailed down a load for the 158s -- I started super low on my last ladder and never broke minor. They were undercharged enough to be pretty inconsistent, which is why I thought my OAL might be way off. Edited January 20, 2014 by thermobollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) As far as crimp goes. I've used a Roll Crimp with some plated bullets. I'm settling down to a Taper for simplicity right now. The issue with oal and bulging is to remember the 38 short colt cases webbing extends up the side, as all rounds do, and a long .358 bullet will meet thicker webbing quicker than a long 355 bullet. I can seat a 357 plated bullet deeper than a 358 lead/coated bullet. Finding light RN 357 bullets with a cannelure is problematic, if you do the cannelure should be about right. Most 357 jacketed bullets are hp/fn. With a .355 125 jacketed bullet I'm using 1.120, .357 147 Plated RN 1.150, .357 148 WC (Yes Wad Cutter for NRA AP) .980 and a .358 160 Bayou RN 1.170. If I go below 1.160 with the Bayou the cases will occasionally bulge and cause the round to not seat. I didn't notice a lot of smoke with the Bayou's and Titegroup but I doubt if the SC is much different than a 38 special in that regard. I have more concerns with the SC and some powders leaving granules in the cylinder, why I don't like WST or Competition (though the Competition and a 355 125 JHP has given me some of the most accurate loads yet.) Edited January 21, 2014 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Thanks guys for all the input. Started setting up the XL650 last night and if you were wondering the 38/357 expander/power funnel will not go down far enough to expand a 38 Short Colt case. The die hits the shell plate just before it starts expanding. So I think I am just going to order a 9mm conversion kit and dies. The Dillon seat and crimp dies will probably work better than my old RCBS 380 ACP and Hornady 9mm seat/crimp combo dies will and having the complete 9mm setup will be helpful later when I buy myself a 929! Assuming I every find one to buy. As for load this is where I am going to start: Case: Starline 38 Short Colt Primer: Fed Small Powder: 3.0grs Titegroup Bullet: 160gr RN Ibejiheads coat lead bullet OAL will be about 1.17-1.20, try to get them as short as I can without bulging the case or compressing the powder charge (probably not an issue with Titegroup) ETA: Will the standard powder bar go down to 3.0 grains of Titegroup or should I order the x-small charge bar when I order the dies and conversion kit? Edited January 21, 2014 by mcb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The OAL between those two are personal preference. With Titegroup the std bar works, with Clays it gets a bit more problematic, might be a good idea to order the xsmall (didn't know they had one) and try it, let us know if you do. The issue with some powders is the size of the flakes can bridge across the gap, so I don't know if it will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 Parts ordered! 9mm conversion and dies. Will let you guys know how it goes. I will also try some Clays through the X-small charge bar I ordered and see how well it does with real light loads. Now if I can just get 800x to meter for my 10mm loads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 n320 meters fine out my factory xl650 powder drop in the low 3.x grains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 n320 meters fine out my factory xl650 powder drop in the low 3.x grains I love N320 but it's getting really hard to find. I have part of a 4lb container left but that is being saved for my favorite 40S&W load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 So I finally got everything setup last night. Had to wait for my Dillon order to arrive. Here is my setup 650XL with a 38/357 shell plate and sizing die and then 9mm expander/power funnel, seat die and crimp die. Seems to work pretty good. I ran about 50rds last night getting everything setup. Left 38 Short Colt 160gr LRN Ibejiheads, Right 38 Special 158gr LRN Sierra As I said above my first load is: Case: Starline 38 Short Colt Primer: Fed Small Powder: 3.04grs Titegroup (average of 10 throws) Bullet: 160gr RN Ibejiheads coated lead bullet OAL: 1.190 Crimp: just enough to remove all the bell from the expander. (Had issues with over crimping coated bullets before) Tonight I will load a similar small batch using 3.2 gr of Clays. I bought the extra small powder charge bar (used it to load the 3.0gr Titegroup loads) and am touch disappointed. It appears to simply be a regular small charge bar with corners machined where the tapper is in the old bar. The parts are all the same and you can see where they machined in the corners with a small diameter end-mill. I was expecting something... a little more sophisticated. That said if it works (with no bridging) I guess I can't complain too much. Top is my old (very dirty, First time out of the powder charger after over 35,000 rds loaded) regular small charge bar. Bottom is the shiny new extra-small charge bar. Now If I can just get to a range and a chronograph... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Be CAREFUL with fast powder and heavy bullets in 38 short colt. Others ( not me) have blown up cylinders with fast powder. I would start at 3.0 and work up slowly. Check extraction. That will tell you more than looking at federal primers. When you have sticky extraction, you need to go back down. Go slow and see what you find out.... DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 3.2 Clays is way too hot, you won't even need 3, I'm using 2.7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 And the problem with CLAYS flake powder is that it will bridge under 3.0 grains with the Dillon measures unless you put something on the measure to keep it moving. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks for the warning and heads up on Clays guys. I will start at 2.7 grains. As for bridging with Clays I am hoping the new extra-small powder bar will fix that. I will throw a bunch of charges and weigh them before loading rounds. I will let you guys know if the extra small powder bar exhibits any bridging issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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