Unconscious Mind - Interesting Experiment

[Red5_Standing_By]

I was at the range three weeks ago and tried to press the trigger smoothly and consistently to the rear but as slow as possible. I wanted to try and feel every millimeter of travel. I took out the slack and came to the pressure wall but couldn't make the trigger move until I forced it and slapped it to the rear. I felt a sense of alarm, or maybe disquiet, trying to do this. I supposed that my unconscious mind was blocking my conscious attempt. Cue the ball and dummy drills! I loaded 1 live round, 6 dummy rounds, 1 live, 6 dummy's, and 1 last live round. I fired the first live round. Bang. I know, I ABSOLUTELY KNOW, that the next round is not live. I press the trigger, the gun goes click, and my front sight dipped. WTH? That never happens in dry fire practice. I get the same results with 5 more dummy rounds. I off load completely and dry fire. The front sight is solid and doesn't move. I loaded back up with the same mix of dummy and live rounds and get the same results I did the first time. I concluded that my unconscious mind is afraid of the explosion and is anticipating the recoil, inducing the error. I also believe that the fear is so deep seeded that even when I consciously know the next round is not live, my subconscious knows there is still a live round in there somewhere and reacts accordingly. Anyone have any thoughts or similar experiences?

[grapemeister]

I concluded that my unconscious mind is afraid of the explosion and is anticipating the recoil, inducing the error. I also believe that the fear is so deep seeded that even when I consciously know the next round is not live, my subconscious knows there is still a live round in there somewhere and reacts accordingly.

Are you sure about the fear and afraid part? Could it just be a natural reaction to control the gun? I'm tempted to say that most people know somehow if it's a fear induced flinch, but maybe not everyone knows.

I find this interesting because I was shooting groups this morning and although I didn't have any real wild shots, I had trouble landing the 1st 45 shots in the little 1" box I was aiming at, consistently. There came a point when I questioned whether I was flinching or not. I came to the conclusion that most missed shots were probably not a flinch and that I was probably trying so hard to control the gun and reacting to soon or too much in a attempt to control the gun. Some might consider that a type of flinch, but in my opinion it's not the same.

Once I convinced myself, or consciously had thoughts of letting the sights return to the target rather than forcing the sights to return to the target, most of the remaining 30 shots were right on target.

Food for thought, maybe?

Edited December 2, 2013 by grapemeister

[juan]

is the dip after the hammer falls ? all is good

[kcobean]

You are imparting a linear increase in pressure on the trigger and expecting a linear reaction. I.e. "I pull, you move". But the force you impart only gets physical feedback when you've applied "enough" pressure and that confuses the mind. We naturally expect a linear equation.

In other words, you are discounting the fact that the increasing pressure you put on a trigger that is not moving is still doing something, even though nothing is happening.

Next time you go out, try reminding yourself consciously that the "press" of the trigger from 0 pounds to whatever your break weight is set at is a fluid process that doesn't end until the hammer/striker falls. Let the gun tell you when you've applied enough pressure, don't try to make that decision yourself. When you have decided to make the decision yourself you will move the gun....It's what you asked for.

[GrumpyOne]

You are imparting a linear increase in pressure on the trigger and expecting a linear reaction. I.e. "I pull, you move". But the force you impart only gets physical feedback when you've applied "enough" pressure and that confuses the mind. We naturally expect a linear equation.

In other words, you are discounting the fact that the increasing pressure you put on a trigger that is not moving is still doing something, even though nothing is happening.

Next time you go out, try reminding yourself consciously that the "press" of the trigger from 0 pounds to whatever your break weight is set at is a fluid process that doesn't end until the hammer/striker falls. Let the gun tell you when you've applied enough pressure, don't try to make that decision yourself. When you have decided to make the decision yourself you will move the gun....It's what you asked for.

In other words, let every shot "suprise" you when it goes bang...don't think, just do...

[Miranda]

mental conditioning, muscle conditioning, pistol conditioning.

what you describe is not too different to what I have noticed.

I dry fire at home...
when I get to the range,
I start witout flinching in any way
call shots and have good aim etc.

over the course of the next hour of shooting
I start blinking and all that follows.

I think of it as:
what I teach myself at home versus
what the pistol teaches me at the range.

I am pretty sure the grip I have on the pistol
when at the range is different.
a near strangle hold strength involved at the range
versus darned little during dryfire.

the two are very different in how the index/trigger finger
feels in motion...
this is the muscle conditioning part...

my only explaination...
and may explain why my live fire shooting
gets better if I stay at it for a few hours
( and if I avoid blinking...)

try a truly firm grip during dryfiring and see if the pistol wiggles.

miranda

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Interesting...

I am currently working on fundamentals, accuracy and most importantly shot calling.

Not the vague half assed shot calling I have been doing up to this point but really KNOWING.

Was doing some bench rest shooting, my goal to meld the trigger break and the sight picture/lift into one event.

First shot of the string after some intense visualization and,,,,,

Gun would not go off, I mean I felt like I was squeezing the hell out of the trigger ( 2011 with a good trigger)

I actually stopped, and regripped saying to myself...WTF?

Again trigger was like a rock.... Slapped it to get the shot to break..... Then relaxed...

Then each time the sight picture aligned the gun went off, strange, somewhat disconcerting but since on target and in control, went with it.

For the whole mag I never consciously pressed the trigger, each correct sight picture sent a round down range.

Very strange feeling. Have read about it, but never quite believed that unconscious action could occur like that, while I just watched.

I have been wanting to talk about it, as it had a very strange, almost detached aura.

Sounds like it started similar to the OP.

[ktm300]

I had video of a stage recently where I ran out of ammo and when I pulled the trigger the front of the gun dropped 3" +-. I know I was not flinching as I shot 95% points in the match and couldn't have done that if I had been flinching that bad. My guess is I am just trying to control recoil after the shot is fired. I would have never known that I was doing it except for seeing that video.

[Frank48]

I have a new (for me) Para P-16 40S&W. I am having some difficulty getting rounds to chamber consistently. I find that if the round does not chamber, and I am tying to fire the round, I will flinch, but if I load a dummy round that chambers and the hammer falls. I won't flinch. I think that I am flinching due to the continued effort to make the gun fire, not anticipation of recoil. Does this make sense?

[benos]

mental conditioning, muscle conditioning, pistol conditioning.

what you describe is not too different to what I have noticed.

I dry fire at home...

when I get to the range,

I start witout flinching in any way

call shots and have good aim etc.

over the course of the next hour of shooting

I start blinking and all that follows.

I think of it as:

what I teach myself at home versus

what the pistol teaches me at the range.

I am pretty sure the grip I have on the pistol

when at the range is different.

a near strangle hold strength involved at the range

versus darned little during dryfire.

the two are very different in how the index/trigger finger

feels in motion...

this is the muscle conditioning part...

my only explaination...

and may explain why my live fire shooting

gets better if I stay at it for a few hours

( and if I avoid blinking...)

try a truly firm grip during dryfiring and see if the pistol wiggles.

miranda

My shooting improved when I was able to harmonize the dry fire and shooting grips. (The shooting grip likes to overgrip.)

[camocarmen]

benos, on 18 Apr 2014 - 6:16 PM, said:

My shooting improved when I was able to harmonize the dry fire and shooting grips. (The shooting grip likes to overgrip.)

This just happened to me for the first time a couple of days ago and has accelerated my learning curve by light years.

[benos]

benos, on 18 Apr 2014 - 6:16 PM, said:

My shooting improved when I was able to harmonize the dry fire and shooting grips. (The shooting grip likes to overgrip.)

This just happened to me for the first time a couple of days ago and has accelerated my learning curve by light years.

Nice!

I can still remember the exact moment, when shooting my first Bianchi Cup match (1981), when I told myself to back off on the grip for the next string on the Mover (COF). The sights came up and aligned perfectly, and the front sight tracked smoothly back into the rear notch after each shot.

Later that night at the bar, I couldn't stop talking to Leonard Knight about how what I realized was going to change everything I did after that moment.

[Chris iliff]

I first dry fired (years ago) and never thought of grip, just getting everything done quickly. Lately, last couple years, I've learned how vital grip is and now I mimic my shooting grip in DRYFIRE.

Which is to say, the more I shoot, the more I realize that the harder I grip, the better and faster I can shoot.

So yes, mimic your shooting grip in DRYFIRE. Whatever allows you to hit the target better and quicker than everyone else, mimic in DRYFIRE.

[redial]

Edited May 25, 2014 by redial