Classic targets at the Nationals

[wide45]

The Nationals should reflect the sport as it is shot in the US. That means nearly all Metric targets. I have no objection to seeing more Classic targets, but that needs to start at the club level. One way to encourage this, would be adding Classifier stages using classic targets.

[Tri Burst]

Boy this is a touchy subject for me.

Why?

Well to my knowledge the Classic target was thought up to make it seem we, IPSC shooter, didn't shoot at targets that had heads for the olympic games trials. Now that there is NO chance for that happening every part of ISPC should go back to the metric target.

[kimel]

Not just the Olys. There are countries that do not allow the use of "humanoid" targets by civilians. So, to play our game they use non-humanoid targets (although I do know a couple football players that more closely resemble the Classic target than the Metric target...neck? What neck?).

Metric and Classic targets present different shooting challenges so I think they should be mixed where allowed. I would even go for mixing them on a single stage which is currently verboten.

[EricW]

Classic shmlassic. Metric schmetric.

Need I say more?

[Vince Pinto]

Well to my knowledge the Classic target was thought up to make it seem we, IPSC shooter, didn't shoot at targets that had heads for the olympic games trials. Now that there is NO chance for that happening every part of ISPC should go back to the metric target.

You've been misinformed, in more ways than one. Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll keep it short and sweet:

The Classic Target had nothing to do with the Olympics. It was introduced because some Regions were prohibited by law from shooting at humanoid targets. As a result, some Regions used "two-headed" targets, and others merely chopped off the upper B zone.

The Classic Target was the result of collaboration between the affected Regions, so that a common target to suit their needs would be available, and it's actually a smaller version of the previously introduced IPSC Universal (Rifle) Target. These days, the Classic Target is used exclusively in over 90% of our Regions, because they'e embraced the Classic Target as more challenging, and it also serves to regain some of the focus on accuracy lost over the years to speed.

In other words, we killed two birds with one stone.

[Jim Norman]

The type of people with religious hatred of Classic targets don't travel to matches outside the U.S. Especially France.

I wouldn't travel to France for any reason. Next time they need a bailout, let them go see their friends the Germans.

Jim Norman

[Jim Norman]

First off, lets call this POS what it really is. It is the IPSC PC target. It is not CLASSIC. It is a PC POS.

Now that I've vented a bit.

Yes it is smaller than the USPSA "True Classic" target, but if you put a diagonal hardcover ofer the USPSA target or cover the entire chest area, all you have left is the small A-Zone in the head. That is smaller than the IPSC PC POS.

If we want to argue the target size line, then why don't we approve 3" plates? they would be smaller and harder to hit than a 6" plate. Maybe we could go for 1/3 or 1/4 size poppers while we're at it. That would be real hard.

If the USPSA were to switch to the IPSC target entirely, I would probably not completely stop shooting USPSA, but I could see IDPA or more travel to Tac matches in my future.

I am tired of bending to the PC crowd. It isn't a High-Capacity ammunitin feeding device, it's a Standard capacity magazine, the 10 rounders we were stuck with were a REDUCED CAPACITY. Headless targets that are introduced 20 years after a sport begins are not CLASSIC. A classic car show is not a place for the 2005 models, it is where you see the cars that were around when we were younger, the ones everyone thinks of when they think of their first car.

This is the US "as in United States" PSA, not the International or Multi-cultural or any other Practical Shooting Association NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP match. You want to practice for the World Shoot, have fun, go to the range buy a few boxes of targets, shoot.

I don't even have a real problem setting up one stage each month next year at our club to help out a former member that is going to WS. But that is not a Championshio Match, it is a club match. We could even decide that the stage is a Sidematch and doesn't count if we wanted to, but still run it for bragging rights just to give our guy some practice.

Ok, My rant for the night is done. I think.

Oh and if anyone missed it, I voted NO on the IPSC Turtles for the USPSA NAtinals and for Area 8

Jim Norman

(as politically incorrect as I can be, but I'm trying to be more so)

[EricW]

The horse died years ago.

[RIIID]

When the "classic" target came out the first thing I said and I still say it " Put a 6x6 area on top with a A-B zone and you have the perfect target." If it did have that 6x6 area on top you could turn the target more than 90 degrees. I'm all for all of the targets be "classic" at the Nationals. Maybe it's about time some people learn to aim each shot fired, but hey who cares it's just my opinion.

Rich

[Jim Norman]

The PC body with our head attached. Why didn't we just cut the head off the top of the target we already had?

Someone had to justify their existance I suppose.

Jim Norman

[Vince Pinto]

I'm really not feeling the love today.

[diehli]

I'm really not feeling the love today.

Wonder why. Nice to see so many close-minded people.

Classics rule!!!

[Vlad]

I'm really not feeling the love today.

Wonder why. Nice to see so many close-minded people.

Classics rule!!!

So tell me why they rule. Can you make an argument for it? Seriously, I'm asking an honest question as I have never shot them. I get the PC thing in countries where you can't use something else, but that aside why do they rule? My position is that if you want to shoot a Practical sport then some practical bits should be around. Heck, shape them like a deer or a pig if you must, but who the heck hunts turtles, because that is the only thing they look like. If you want a shooting challange, I'm ok with it, lets add a A+ zone over the heart on a Metric and score it 6 or 7 points. That should do it.

Vlad

[Jim Norman]

No love lost here.

The Classic isn't. Period. It is an abomination. Want to use it in a match, fine, but not the Nationals or an Area or Section Match. Fine for Clubs. The World Shoot aside, I'd love to see it hosted in the US, using all USPSA Traditional Targets. Would we then have the same people demanding that the rest of the world use our target?

Jim

[diehli]

I'm really not feeling the love today.

Wonder why. Nice to see so many close-minded people.

Classics rule!!!

So tell me why they rule. Can you make an argument for it? Seriously, I'm asking an honest question as I have never shot them. I get the PC thing in countries where you can't use something else, but that aside why do they rule? My position is that if you want to shoot a Practical sport then some practical bits should be around. Heck, shape them like a deer or a pig if you must, but who the heck hunts turtles, because that is the only thing they look like. If you want a shooting challange, I'm ok with it, lets add a A+ zone over the heart on a Metric and score it 6 or 7 points. That should do it.

Vlad

Because they're smaller and they require a greater degree of all the things that help you win USPSA/IPSC competition.

[diehli]

And this nonsense about "practicality"... give it a rest. If you want "practical," go shoot IDPA. This applies to another topic currently under debate on the forum.

I'm not saying ditch Metric completely. I AM saying if it's legal, use it.

[diehli]

And one final thing: the Metric target should be called the "Classic" and the Classic the "Metric."

[kdj]

I still think the Classic target looks more like what we're used to thinking of as a target and so is "Classic" in a non-IPSC sense.

Makes sense to me but that doesn't always generalize

Kevin

[Flexmoney]

How about we turn this to a "poll only" thread.