2 moa dot versus a 4 moa dot

[thefiremeister]

Is there an advatage to using the 4 moa instead of a 2 moa dot for range estimation and holdovers? Like on an Aim point.

I was told by an instructor once that a 4 moa dot was better but never got a chance to follow to up on why and how you would use it.

To me it seems like the bigger dot would cover more of a target that a smaller dot and would be harder to work with unless you held the dot off to the side for estimations and then put the dot back on target.

Anyone using a 4 moa dot for any kind of estimation?

[Chuck Anderson]

If it was an etched reticle I could see doing that. But not with a red dot. The dots vary in size and are rarely exactly what they say they are. Also if you have it dialed up to even a reasonable intensity the dot will bloom and be bigger than the specified size. Better to have the smallest dot possible, use a rangefinder and just know your holdovers.

[thefiremeister]

If it was an etched reticle I could see doing that. But not with a red dot. The dots vary in size and are rarely exactly what they say they are. Also if you have it dialed up to even a reasonable intensity the dot will bloom and be bigger than the specified size. Better to have the smallest dot possible, use a rangefinder and just know your holdovers.

Thats how I see it but I was looking to see if anybody had a different take on it.

[bigbrowndog]

on paper the 4moa dot makes better sense using the calibers that we predominately use, and the ranges that are popular for zeroing at. But the reasons Chuck gave offset the paper logic, enough to warrant going with a smaller illum.dot

Trapr

[markhawkeyeordnance]

+1 on the smaller dot. You can generally increase the size of a 2 MOA dot with a brighter setting but you can never make a 4 MOA dot smaller.

[thefiremeister]

So I take it no one is ranging with one of these things. I wish I had been able to follow up on that because its never made any sense but has always pops up and is has been a question un answered. its been bugging me. Now not so much

Thanks

[spd522]

I have a couple of C-Mores mounted on rifles. They have 4 MOA dots. One advantage to a C-More vs most of the other dots is the ability to dial down the intensity to a level where it is semi-transparent. With this method, I can see a small target through the dot at extreme distances where other dots may cover it up.

That said, I am still going to install 2 MOA modules as I have a Vortex SPARC with 2 MOA dot and prefer the smaller size. I would probably go with a 1 MOA if it were available and bright enough.

Craig

[bigbrowndog]

once thebuzzer goes off you don't have time to range on the clock!! you should've already known the distance.

trapr

[Sterling White]

Hidden on the aimpoint site is the fact that 5 to 10 percent of the population can not see a 2moa red dot properly. I'm one of those. I have one and sometimes I see an egg for a dot - too much caffeine or blood sugar I guess. The exact size and shape of the dot depends on the angle between my eye, my glasses, and the sight. This has given me variable groups at 100 yards on different days. What I did find was the dot in a Leupold Prismatic (4moa) is visible as a circle with or without a battery. I use the Prismatic with black cross-hairs. These allow me to level the gun out for targets at distance. The Leupold is the way to go if you have problems with an electric dot.

[bigbrowndog]

I read the Pris dot was 6moa on the crosshairs circle dot reticle, did you order it special with a 4moa dot??

[Sterling White]

Trap'r, I stand corrected....you are correct. It is a 6moa. The smallest dot offered was a 3moa in the dot circle prismatic.

[Stlhead]

I use an aim point. It works for me, but I m in the minority. I would think that the number of people who do not see the dot well is MUCH greater than the 5-10% that aim point claims, my personal guess would be more like 30-40%. There are those that can use them and those that can't, and of those that can most still prefer the prismatic. I do not range with the dot, nor do I use it to estimate hold overs. I use the target to estimate my holdover and range with a laser. I would say try as many aiming systems as you can and find the one that best suites your style, but that would not be the internet age way of doing it. Best to leave that sort of decision up to a poll or possibly a forum.......

[P.E. Kelley]

I love Stlhead! " Best to leave that sort of decision up to a poll or possibly a forum....... :cheers:"

Edited October 18, 2013 by P.E. Kelley

[Mark Stephens]

I started with a 2 Moa aimpoint and loved it. Hard to beat running around. Started shooting a DCD Pris and am hooked. Really like the super clear glass and very crisp aiming point. Only draw back is that it's black and it can get lost on some targets, usually La Rues. Although at distance you are typically going to be holding over the target so it doesn't matter much.

[Sterling White]

There is a solution to our common problem, Mark. Targets should be painted and or quicklime, white pumas or talc should be used to highlight them.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Sterling White

[Mark Stephens]

I would love me some freshly painted targets for every squad. Never understood why for 95% of long range stages the targets couldn't be repainted between squads. There will always be some targets that are tough to get to but for the most part it could be done.

[kurtm]

Heratic,s!!! Both of you!! Don't you know that can't be done in the U.S.!!! You will cause baby ducks to be squashed, Baby rabits to be run over, and you will take away Christmas for EVERYONE!!! Every stage in the U.S. will back up, a solar eclips will fall and never lift, Tiger,s and Lamb,s will sleep together. The pandamonium and chaos will be complete!!!

welcome to the club!

Notice bottom tag line, kill the planet!!!

Edited October 24, 2013 by kurtm

[Mark Stephens]

Lol! That seems about right.

[Sterling White]

Tiger got in trouble for doing that.... Mr. Wood that is!

[kurtm]

Well played Sir!!! Well played!!! :)

[StealthyBlagga]

I run a 2MOA Aimpoint. It works pretty well for me, even with my slight short-sightedness (-1/4 diopter) and astigmatism; the trick is to dial down the brightness a click or two, and wear clear shooting glasses (as opposed to darker sunglasses) so that your pupils stop down and thus crispen the image.

The EOTech works for many, and is available with a BDC reticle, but I personally find all the EOTech reticles to be too "busy". I also don't like having to think about battery life. Lastly, I find the push button brightness adjustment to be a distraction when setting up for a stage. Just not for me.

I did try the Prismatic with DCD reticle, but I just could not get on with the black dot - it disappears too readily on anything dark (dark-painted targets, dark backers, shadows in the AZ sun etc.) and the illumination is just not strong enough. I do think an etched reticle is the way to go, but it needs meaningful illumination... for me, the ideal would be a 1x version of my Meopta K-Dot, which is about as bright as my Aimpoint but really crisp. Meopta makes a red dot that I would love to take a peek through.

.

[Stlhead]

On a team stage last year I had a rifle malfunction and transitioned to my partners rifle (Smitty's cheater gun) and enjoyed aiming with his Swaro, now that thing has a 1x I could get used to. I shot the whole stage on 1x other than the last couple targets, figured I better try the magnification thing while I had the chance. Not sure why I dug it but it left a very favorable impression on me from just the 10 minutes or so I was using it. I wonder if we should allow variable power scopes if fixed on 1x to shoot in limited? I would not see it as a competitive advantage, and a hunk of tape or zip tie would be enough. That way it would be easier to jump divisions, might bulk up the limited field, as well as make it easyer to jump from limited to scope tac if no one shows up to shoot limited?

[TRUBL]

I bought 2 of the prismatics.....to try out both reticles. I found that hte 2MOA dot would get lost very easy on anything but white targets.....the circle was a good ref point. But in the end I traded the DCD for another turkey plex (the cross hair one).

My reasoning was.....if I lost the 6moa dot, I had cross hairs for the ref to find it again. (Have never lost it). Also......I zero in at 50yards which is also really close to my 200 yard zero. I hold dead on out to 200yds. The dot does cover a 12" steel plate at 200yrds so....cover target, pull trigger. At 300 yards I have about a 9" drop.....and the dot covers 18"......so I set the bottom of the dot at the center of the target. At 400yds.....I key in off the top of post of the cross hair.

At close range......I use the circle for reference and it's very fast. I've even bought another one and use it on my 22AR for ruger rimfire competition.....and it has not slowed me down. (however, age has)

Tim

Edited October 26, 2013 by TRUBL