223 case trimming?

[Blue Jacket]

I don't load a ton of rifle and was curious if you can trim before resizing. I have always resized then trimmed, but I am looking at getting either a Dillon power trimmer or a little crow. I know the Dillion resizes and cuts so no issue. However, on the little crow it just trims.

If I purchased a little crow I would like to Tumble the brass, trim it then load in my 550.

Would this be a problem? Little crow is much less cost that's why I'm wondering.

Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

[Amerflyer48]

usually I resize then trim I still have my old Lyman Universal and don't shoot anywhere near enough to have to high speed process and keep a batch ahead

the problem I see is unless you could figure if and how much the brass grows when it is resized how much do you need to trim?

You could trim to the approved trim to length and rely on the case growing when resized then again it may be so small an amount that this is an academic venture

I guess trim a few, resize and remeasure to obtain an average length growth due to resizing to see if there is any useable difference

John

[Religious Shooter]

If you don't full length resize you run the problem of the round sticking into your chamber.

For a semi-auto, I would decap and FL resize... tumble... trim with the Little crow... and then reload.

[Vlad]

I do, I have a odd little pattern. I use an RCBS X-die for sizing. I currently manually trim my brass on a RCBS trim-pro. What I have done is set the trimmer to slightly under spec min length, and the x-die to slightly over. I trim my cases first, then size the and they grow a bit but the x-die controls that.

Note that because of the x-die I only do this once, whern the brass is once fired, and after it is used 3-4 times I chuck the brass. I woulnd't do secondary trimming this way.

[Gandof]

I size, then trim, and I do it every loading. Often the cases haven't grown enough to touch the trimmer blade, but I want ammo that works anytime in any gun.

[Alaskapopo]

I trim and size at the same time with my Dillon 1200 trimmer. I tumble the brass then run it through the Dillon trimmer and then reload.
Pat

Edited September 30, 2013 by Alaskapopo

[HighCountryStalker]

I trim and size at the same time with my Dillon 1200 trimmer. I tumble the brass then run it through the Dillon trimmer and then reload.

Pat

Pat, do you use any sizing die other than the 1200? I just started using mine and not set on a process yet. Right now a full size/decap in #1, then the 1200 trimmer in #3. On the reloading toolhead just a universal decap? Curious if anyone is using the 1200 as their exclusive size/trim device.

[Blue Jacket]

Thanks for the responses. You verified what I thought. Resize, trim and load them up.

Of course before that I have to decap and swage the primer pocket since some of the brass is range pick up.

[Alaskapopo]

I trim and size at the same time with my Dillon 1200 trimmer. I tumble the brass then run it through the Dillon trimmer and then reload.

Pat

Pat, do you use any sizing die other than the 1200? I just started using mine and not set on a process yet. Right now a full size/decap in #1, then the 1200 trimmer in #3. On the reloading toolhead just a universal decap? Curious if anyone is using the 1200 as their exclusive size/trim device.

I run it through the sizing die on the press as well. Not needed sure but it was just simpler to leave the sizing die alone on the press. Here is my process from start to finish.

1. Tumble brass to clean it.

2. Trim brass on 1200.

3. Tumble brass to remove lube and brass shavings.

4. Load brass on press.

Pat

[rjacobs]

The 1200 trim die obviously doesn't have an expander ball which is crucial for sizing and proper neck tension. Yes it acts as a body and neck sizer but without the expander ball it's useless. Also the expander ball is one of the chief reasons that the brass grows as its sized.

If you are using a 550:

Fl size, decap, expander ball in station 1

1200 trimmer in station 3

On your loading tool head you can leave station 1 empty or throw a universal deprime die to get any media out of the flash hole. I stainless tumble so no media gets stuck in my flash holes anymore.

[Alaskapopo]

By trimming it first and running it through the standard die later when I load I don't have to worry about media in the flashholes.
Pat

[hpnewby]

For me, range brass grows 0.003-.005" in a FL sizer. I trim everything back to 1.750" max and load away.

[zmanktm]

Tumble clean

On 550B Resize-deprime-trim (Dillon 1200)

Wash and dry in Birchwood Casey Brass cleaner

Load on 550B

[mcracco]

Just posted similar info in the other thread but I use a WFT with an RCBS Prep Center. Frankly, I always thought the Prep Center was a bs product but it works quite well. With the WFT in a drill held in vice and the Prep Center running I have a pretty two handed flow to keep both machines busy.

[steel1212]

Tumble

Run it through the 650 with size die and 1200

Tumble and switch tool heads to one with size die back off to just clean the flash hole and load like normal.

[Doc Hunter]

Dillon 1200 is your friend.

[ffgats]

The 1200 trim die obviously doesn't have an expander ball which is crucial for sizing and proper neck tension. Yes it acts as a body and neck sizer but without the expander ball it's useless. Also the expander ball is one of the chief reasons that the brass grows as its sized.

If you are using a 550:

Fl size, decap, expander ball in station 1

1200 trimmer in station 3

On your loading tool head you can leave station 1 empty or throw a universal deprime die to get any media out of the flash hole. I stainless tumble so no media gets stuck in my flash holes anymore.

Rjacobs,

can you give some tips and tricks on how you set up your 1200Trim Die since its been Resized already by the Regular Resizing Die at station 1

thanks

[rjacobs]

The 1200 trim die obviously doesn't have an expander ball which is crucial for sizing and proper neck tension. Yes it acts as a body and neck sizer but without the expander ball it's useless. Also the expander ball is one of the chief reasons that the brass grows as its sized.

If you are using a 550:

Fl size, decap, expander ball in station 1

1200 trimmer in station 3

On your loading tool head you can leave station 1 empty or throw a universal deprime die to get any media out of the flash hole. I stainless tumble so no media gets stuck in my flash holes anymore.

Rjacobs,

can you give some tips and tricks on how you set up your 1200Trim Die since its been Resized already by the Regular Resizing Die at station 1

thanks

I have Wilson gauges and the Hornady headspace gauge kit for a caliper. I generally use the hornady headspace gauge kit for setting the trimmer die. I set the full length die how I want it in station 1 and then station 3 is the trim die. I will work the trim die down until I see the shoulder bumped down and then work it back slightly until I dont get a dimension change from what the full length die in station 1 does. Then and only then will I setup the trimmer. I generally crank it down until the trimmer cutter insert touches the die and then back out a full turn, cut a piece, and see what it does and then I can decide how much I need to adjust the trimmer. Some people say that the Dillon trim dies have a tighter neck than the full length dies, I dont know, never measured, but I have had zero issues. I have probably processed(and subsequently loaded and shot) 10k 5.56 brass and at least 2500-3000 .308 brass using this method. I maybe burn up 5-7 pieces of brass getting everything just right.

The key is to have the proper measuring equipment and to only set up ONE function at a time.

[Doc Hunter]

An expander or mandrel needs to be AFTER the 1200 trimmer, not before it.

[rjacobs]

An expander or mandrel needs to be AFTER the 1200 trimmer, not before it.

not in my experience. Some people have said that the neck of their trimmer dies was smaller than their full length die. I dont have that issue, but maybe these people are really cranking down their die and not using any kind of measuring equipment. I dont have any issues loading either(except when I forget to chamfer and debur the .308 cases after trimming).

And sizing, specifically pulling the expander ball back through the neck, is one of the primary reasons brass grows.

[Doc Hunter]

Bullets make really poor expanders. It is the condition of the bullet as it leaves the rifle that is important. Damage it and you have wasted your time and money. It is the "ID" of the case neck that is important NOT the "OD" - the "ID" is where the bullet lives. That needs to be Round, Straight, Consistent in length, and its grip on the bullet must be consistent. The size and condition of the neck "ID" is considerably more important for accuracy than the "OD".. Even the idea of neck turning, sets itself off of the "ID" of the case neck. The idea being to true the "OD" consistent with the geometry of the neck "ID".. Many people (including me) even anneal the case mouth every loading to maintain a consistent level of "pull" for the bullet. Trim your cases every time and stop worrying about case stretch. They are going to stretch anyway so get over it. I would suggest that you do some reading and experimenting with the accuracy of your loads. Not 3 shot groups either - they are a joke. And at distance. You can produce excellent accurate ammunition from progressive techniques - but you cannot just slam it together. Now if you are only interested in mixed brass "Ball" ammo type accuracy that's fine. If you want better ammo - shortcuts are a fail. Most people start reloading to save money - and that's great. Sooner or later, they want better and better ammunition. That means changes in technique, improved components and the time invested. I shoot regularly out past 1K. I use ammo that is mostly produced using semi-progressive techniques. Works!

Edited November 8, 2013 by Doc Hunter

[Blue Jacket]

Related discussion do I bite the bullet and buy the Dillion trimmer. I only load probably 1k a year or would the little crow work as well. And I know it wouldn't be as quick. Thanks

[Doc Hunter]

Blue Jacket - buy once, cry once. But, that depends on if you load lots of other calibers. I've never used the Little Crow. I use a couple of Giraud Power Trimmers for calibers I use less frequently, and larger 338 Lapua that will not fit in the Dillion. If you load a lot of 5.56 or 7.62, then the Dillion is great for that. You can collect a bunch of brass, then hit it all at once. Smaller batches, and a lot of switching calibers, then you could look at other options. The 1200 is a great product though.

[outerlimits]

little crow the shit. and i do way more than 1k a year.

[Blue Jacket]

Doc thanks. I have a hand trimmer I used last time. I use it for more than 223, but I vowed not to hand trim 1500 pieces if brass ever again. That's why I was looking for something more automated. I know a lot of people that use the Dillon. However little crow is only about $70 so I thought I would ask about it.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Blue Jacket