Am I over crimping my rounds?

[Fureio]

I use Berry's plated round nose bullets sized at .452. Currently. I'm using Winchester once fired brass and a Dillion XL650. Before i sized the brass, I measured the business end of the brass at .471. (Measuring at the very end of the opening) I set the crimp die resize to .471. Using the DIllion Case gauge, i notice that the rounds enter snug and dont just slide in and out of the gauge freely like the factory ammo did before i shot it. I pulled the bullet and noticed that the round had some marring - no plated material removed, no dents or damage to the round. I noticed that the friction caused by setting the bullet put striations on the side of the bullet. No harm. Berry's plated bullets aren't manufactured with canneleure in place. Crimping to 471 causes no indentation or piercing of any kind on the plating.

Reading posts on crimping on these forums, most people recommend a crimp from .468 to .470. I chose to crimp to .469. The possible issue is that this crimp causes an indentation, or a slight canneleure on the bullet sides. I pulled the bullet and noticed that there was a ring on the bullet, but the plating wasn't pierced.

Is this ok, or will i experience FPS loss or loss in accuracy? I'm currently doing load testing and want to ensure I don't botch the test batch.

[noylj]

1) Did you size the case?

2) Did you expand and flare/bell the mouth of the case?

You need to flare the case mouth enough that the bullet being seated never touches the case mouth.

3) The crimp needs to be just enough so the round will drop in the barrel and fall back out. I don't like to crimp so much as to mark the bullet. The crimp isn't going to help hold the bullet and you don't need to damage the bullet.

4) Have you chamfered the cases inside and out? If not, the case is likely to have a sharp edge that can dig into the bullet. You only need to chamfer a case once.

[Dirty Rod]

I pulled the bullet and noticed that there was a ring on the bullet, but the plating wasn't pierced.

Is this ok, or will i experience FPS loss or loss in accuracy?

You're fine. As long as you don't break the plating it will be fine. As mentioned above, you may not be belling the case enough which might be why your bullets are getting a little marred. I load a lot of Berrys and if I pull a bullet the only way you know it was loaded is the faint line where it was crimped.

[stick]

1) Did you size the case?

2) Did you expand and flare/bell the mouth of the case?

You need to flare the case mouth enough that the bullet being seated never touches the case mouth.

3) The crimp needs to be just enough so the round will drop in the barrel and fall back out. I don't like to crimp so much as to mark the bullet. The crimp isn't going to help hold the bullet and you don't need to damage the bullet.

4) Have you chamfered the cases inside and out? If not, the case is likely to have a sharp edge that can dig into the bullet. You only need to chamfer a case once.

Exactly what he said!

[Hi-Power Jack]

I use Berry's plated round nose bullets sized at .452. rounds enter snug friction caused by setting the bullet put striations on the side of the bullet.

Have you tried seating the bullets just a little deeper?

[Fureio]

1) Did you size the case? Yes.

2) Did you expand and flare/bell the mouth of the case? Yes. Apparently i need to bell it out more. I didn't want to overdo it and overwork the brass.

You need to flare the case mouth enough that the bullet being seated never touches the case mouth. I understand, the problem is that this setting is hard to observe while looking at videos.

3) The crimp needs to be just enough so the round will drop in the barrel and fall back out. I don't like to crimp so much as to mark the bullet. The crimp isn't going to help hold the bullet and you don't need to damage the bullet.

4) Have you chamfered the cases inside and out? If not, the case is likely to have a sharp edge that can dig into the bullet. You only need to chamfer a case once. Yes. The bullet didn't appear scratched nor were there indentations. What I saw looked similar to drawing on a wall with crayons, only this was with gun powder residue.

[Fureio]

I pulled the bullet and noticed that there was a ring on the bullet, but the plating wasn't pierced. Is this ok, or will i experience FPS loss or loss in accuracy?

You're fine. As long as you don't break the plating it will be fine. As mentioned above, you may not be belling the case enough which might be why your bullets are getting a little marred. I load a lot of Berrys and if I pull a bullet the only way you know it was loaded is the faint line where it was crimped.

Thanks. Reading this, i may just bump the crimp to .470 with the case measuring .471 before it gets sized (flared). Is it a better idea to just bring the crimp back to the exact measurement the case was before flaring?

[Bart Solo]

What kind of gun are you using?

[Fureio]

I use Berry's plated round nose bullets sized at .452. rounds enter snug friction caused by setting the bullet put striations on the side of the bullet.

Have you tried seating the bullets just a little deeper?

Seating? Do you mean OAL? I set that at .125. That seems to be the standard OAL for 45 acp.

[Fureio]

What kind of gun are you using?

http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/eclipse-ii/eclipse-target-ii

[Hi-Power Jack]

rounds enter snug friction

Have you tried seating the bullets just a little deeper?

Seating? Do you mean OAL? I set that at .125. That seems to be the standard OAL for 45 acp.

Really good idea to check your OAL for your gun with any particular bullet - just drop the

bullets into your chamber and see how they fit - could be the bullet catching the rifling.

[Fureio]

Really good idea to check your OAL for your gun with any particular bullet - just drop the

bullets into your chamber and see how they fit - could be the bullet catching the rifling.

Thanks for the suggestion. The bullets haven't made it into the pistol yet. This snug fit happened when i slid the bullets into a case gauge. The OAL test passed but i had to push the bullets into the gauge to have them fit all the way. Length isn't the issue, its the width that felt tight. That's why i thought going with a tighter crimp would help.

[Bart Solo]

What kind of gun are you using?

http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/eclipse-ii/eclipse-target-ii

Headspacing of a 45 ACP is off the case mouth. Too much crimp and it won't do well in your case gauge or your pistol. You don't want much crimp, but you want some to sort of snug up the bullet. Buy and install a Lee Crimp Die on your Dillon. A lot of people think Lee is cheap stuff, but their Crimp Die is the best out there. Here is what the Lee manual says about crimping when speaking of the 45 ACP, 9MM etc.: " Auto-loaders, such as the 45 ACP, usually have very little crimp, hardly more than enough to push the flare back against the bullet. You simply cannot crimp a jacketed bullet with a conventional die if it does not have a crimp groove. At best, the crimp die included with most die sets, will do little more than iron out the mouth flare. This helps for smooth chambering." The Lee Crimp Die will apply a taper crimp that I find works great. It will also do a final resizing of your round.

There are some illustrations on the internet of how the case should look in the gauge. The bottom of the case should be smooth with the gauge, or maybe a little inside (but not much) the bottom of the gauge. If it is above the bottom of the gauge or if it is more than just a tad inside you have a problem round. If you over crimp, round won't fit into the gauge properly.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Bart Solo

[Steve RA]

Forget the case gauge, the chamber in your barrel is the final judge of whether or not the load is correct for your gun. Ideally you can drop the cartridge into the chamber and it will be flush with the barrel hood and you can rotate it ( rotating it means the bullet is not catching on the rifling) Use this to determine the proper overall length of the loaded cartridge. The numbers in a reloading book - or what someone tells you on a forum - are merely rough approximations.

Needless to say, take the barrel out of the weapon to do the above check !!!

[Dirty Rod]

I pulled the bullet and noticed that there was a ring on the bullet, but the plating wasn't pierced. Is this ok, or will i experience FPS loss or loss in accuracy?

You're fine. As long as you don't break the plating it will be fine. As mentioned above, you may not be belling the case enough which might be why your bullets are getting a little marred. I load a lot of Berrys and if I pull a bullet the only way you know it was loaded is the faint line where it was crimped.

Thanks. Reading this, i may just bump the crimp to .470 with the case measuring .471 before it gets sized (flared). Is it a better idea to just bring the crimp back to the exact measurement the case was before flaring?

All you want to do is remove the flare. If the case is straight it should drop right in.

I'd verify that you sizing die is set correctly before going too much further. Size a case and, with no bullet, drop the case into the gauge or barrel. If the case goes all the way in then it's good. If the case gets stuck then make sure your sizing die is adjusted all the way down.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Dirty Rod

[Pinecone]

To figure out how much to crimp, do not use a fired case. to measure the diameter.

Measure your bullet. Measure the THICKNESS of the case at the mouth. The minimum crimp should be:

Bullet Diameter + 2 times Case Thickness

This will snug the case down on the bullet without pushing the case mouth in the bullet. I would actually crimp a bit more than that.

But what I do is, set the crimp die to 1) not leave a lip I can feel and 2) so the rounds fall into the case gauge.

[MainlineSteve]

Something to consider: As a round is fired, the case expands to a tight fit within the chamber for a fraction of a second. This expansion is actually what holds the case in the chamber as the bullet leaves the case and scoots down the barrel. As blast pressure is released down the barrel, the case springs back to a smaller circumference - smaller, but not factory spec small. It shrinks from the chamber walls and the action is cycled. You didn't take this into account, so your reload of the expanded case was fat in the gauge.

If your once-fired brass was fired from your own firearm and you're reloading for that same gun, then what you're doing will probably work. Otherwise, resize your case closer to factory specs and work a bit more with flare and careful seating to ensure proper chambering. What you don't want is to have the bullet practically loose in the case, being held almost entirely by the crimp. You want a nice, snug, full-length fit that only needs a crimp to prevent bullet set back.

If you want to get a good idea of how much headspace you have available: Resize a case to factory dimensions. Insert a flatbased bullet upside down into your unprimed, powder-free case. Press it down below the standard oal, but not too far below that. Insert said round into a magazine, load the mag and chamber the round. Rack the slide and clear the chamber over the couch or carpet so the round lands on something soft. Repeat the load, chamber, clear chamber. The resulting flathead round now shows you the maximum (bullet ogive) shoulder height for rounds in your gun.

Edited August 14, 2013 by MainlineSteve

[Bart Solo]

I have just ordered some of the same bullets. I will report back if I have any issues loading them. Copper has gotten thinner on all these plated bullets, but I don't think loading them is going to be an issue.

Oh, I recognize that a lot of people use the 45 barrel as a poor man's case gauge and that works great. Personally I use the L.E. Wilson case gauge. Since I am lazy and don't like taking my pistols apart all the time, I find it was $20.00 well spent.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Bart Solo

[Fureio]

I use case gauges Brian sold me. I believe they are Dillon. Thanks for all the helpful tips!

[Pinecone]

If you want to get a good idea of how much headspace you have available: Resize a case to factory dimensions. Insert a flatbased bullet upside down into your unprimed, powder-free case. Press it down below the standard oal, but not too far below that. Insert said round into a magazine, load the mag and chamber the round. Rack the slide and clear the chamber over the couch or carpet so the round lands on something soft. Repeat the load, chamber, clear chamber. The resulting flathead round now shows you the maximum (bullet ogive) shoulder height for rounds in your gun.

This is not your head space. That is your throat bepth/length or leade.

Straight walled pistol cases headspace on the case mouth, not the bullet.

[MainlineSteve]

If you want to get a good idea of how much headspace you have available: Resize a case to factory dimensions. Insert a flatbased bullet upside down into your unprimed, powder-free case. Press it down below the standard oal, but not too far below that. Insert said round into a magazine, load the mag and chamber the round. Rack the slide and clear the chamber over the couch or carpet so the round lands on something soft. Repeat the load, chamber, clear chamber. The resulting flathead round now shows you the maximum (bullet ogive) shoulder height for rounds in your gun.

This is not your head space. That is your throat bepth/length or leade.

Straight walled pistol cases headspace on the case mouth, not the bullet.

You are correct, sir. I should not have put "head" before the word "space". I was thinking distance to lands from case mouth or "leade". Thanks for the catch.