Production Revolver Ammo

[pskys2]

I'm setting up a PC627 for ICORE, maybe USPSA, and will be using 38 Short Colt in it. I was wondering if Action Pistol would prohibit it's use in Production. I know .38 Special would be more accurate, but it'd be simpler at least in local matches to use one load.

I don't see anything in the Rule Book other than using the same ammo and it being safe.

Edited July 23, 2013 by pskys2

[goldfieldshooter]

As long as they are all loaded the same and make 120PF I can't see any problem.

[pskys2]

That's the way I read it and am approaching it. But you know NRA, they get kind of ummm persnikety about things.

Thought someone might have seen the issue and knew the outcome.

For instance in IDPA, you can't shoot .44 Russians in a .44 Magnum. It's not in the spirit they say. You can't shoot 45 gap in a 45 acp revolver either there.

In USPSA as long as it's safe and meets the minimum, it's ok. One reason why I do one and not the other.

Probably is a moot point as I really like the 148 Berry WC's for Action Pistol and the 627 shoots them great, loaded in 357 magnum cases.

[Alan550]

Your main problem with that weight bullet in NRA Bianchi shooting would be on the mover. Your lead-factor would end up completely off the target at the 25-yd line.

There is no caliber specification except a minimum of 9mm. Power floor is 120 and all ammo used in the match must be identical in bullet weight and type. I saw a shooter DQ'd at the Cup when he pulled out a box of mixed ammo (some JHP and some LSWC) at check-in on the Plates. He'd inadvertently brought some of his practice ammo to the main match and it cost him.

Alan~^~

[toothguy]

Your main problem with that weight bullet in NRA Bianchi shooting would be on the mover. Your lead-factor would end up completely off the target at the 25-yd line.

There is no caliber specification except a minimum of 9mm. Power floor is 120 and all ammo used in the match must be identical in bullet weight and type. I saw a shooter DQ'd at the Cup when he pulled out a box of mixed ammo (some JHP and some LSWC) at check-in on the Plates. He'd inadvertently brought some of his practice ammo to the main match and it cost him.

Alan~^~

+1, A good example of this using something like DC ammos short colt, 150 JRN, 130pf loads. The 150 gr bullet is traveling at about 866fps so at 25yrds you would need to lead 10.39 inches. From the center of the X to the edge of the target is 9 inches. A better choice would be a 125 gr JHP at 130pf, the lead would be 8.65 inches at 25 yrds.

Edited July 24, 2013 by toothguy

[pskys2]

Your main problem with that weight bullet in NRA Bianchi shooting would be on the mover. Your lead-factor would end up completely off the target at the 25-yd line.

There is no caliber specification except a minimum of 9mm. Power floor is 120 and all ammo used in the match must be identical in bullet weight and type. I saw a shooter DQ'd at the Cup when he pulled out a box of mixed ammo (some JHP and some LSWC) at check-in on the Plates. He'd inadvertently brought some of his practice ammo to the main match and it cost him.

Alan~^~

That's the kind of stuff I worry about. The NRA can be inflexible.

I've shot Bianchi with a .45 185's and Regionals with 9mm with everything from 124 to 147's. I just never saw a huge difference in my scores on the mover. It's always more about a smooth stroke and not stopping the gun after a shot! I actually like a load that has me holding at the edge of the target at 25yds. Having to aim in front is not the best though.

[Toolguy]

For the mover, around 900 FPS puts you on the edge of the target and each scoring ring for the other distances. At 10 yards, the side of the X, at 15 yd. the side of the 10 ring, at 20 yd. the side of the 8 ring.

[DWFAN]

Your main problem with that weight bullet in NRA Bianchi shooting would be on the mover. Your lead-factor would end up completely off the target at the 25-yd line.

There is no caliber specification except a minimum of 9mm. Power floor is 120 and all ammo used in the match must be identical in bullet weight and type. I saw a shooter DQ'd at the Cup when he pulled out a box of mixed ammo (some JHP and some LSWC) at check-in on the Plates. He'd inadvertently brought some of his practice ammo to the main match and it cost him.

Alan~^~

+1, A good example of this using something like DC ammos short colt, 150 JRN, 130pf loads. The 150 gr bullet is traveling at about 866fps so at 25yrds you would need to lead 10.39 inches. From the center of the X to the edge of the target is 9 inches. A better choice would be a 125 gr JHP at 130pf, the lead would be 8.65 inches at 25 yrds.

So, using that load you would be 1.39 inches behind the center of the X by leading at the edge of the target? Which is still in the X ring, and well within the 10ring.

I watched Kyle Schmidt give a really neat demo at Bianchi with some clear overlays on a target. I wish I would have asked if he had the print out's to email.

He basically showed that you could score a 480 by holding the same lead each direction (8-ring), at each distance. With 900 fps, Leading on the 8-ring, your impact is the trailing 8/10ring line at the 25yd line, so a little over 900 would be ideal, or just lead barely ahead of the 8-ring.

Obviously not the best method for X-count, but you gotta have the points before those matter anyway.

[pskys2]

My limited experience with movers always showed a smooth swing and no jerks or hesitations to be the best methods regardless of hold.

Doing it is the problem!

[DWFAN]

Yes, that was the main point of his demo. Trigger control and follow through has a much greater impact than a faster bullet.

[toothguy]

Yes, that was the main point of his demo. Trigger control and follow through has a much greater impact than a faster bullet.

+1, I struggle with keeping the trigger and the gun moving. When I just try to keep the shots in the center area of the target, I do well. When I try to get to precise, the gun and the trigger stop flowing with the target and I shoot like crap.

[gm iprod]

Same here.

Get 1920 first, the X's just seem to come along for the ride.

[Griz]

He basically showed that you could score a 480 by holding the same lead each direction (8-ring), at each distance. With 900 fps, Leading on the 8-ring, your impact is the trailing 8/10ring line at the 25yd line, so a little over 900 would be ideal, or just lead barely ahead of the 8-ring.

Obviously not the best method for X-count, but you gotta have the points before those matter anyway.

That would work great if I could shoot a zero inch group. I can't do that, I have a hard enough time keeping it in the 10 ring with a stick shift, so using a fast enough bullet and holding the right lead is critical for *me* with metallic sights on the mover.

It's like when someone says about their inaccurate gun that it shoots better than they do, so they don't need a more accurate gun. IMO, the worse a shooter is, the more accurate a gun they need. If your gun shoots a 3" group then you need to be capable of shooting a 1" group to hit the X ring every time. If your gun can do a 1" group, then you only need to be capable of a 3" group to hit the X-ring every time.

[gm iprod]

My gun will shoot 2" at 50Y with me driving it. Under a timer at practice I have shoot them all into the X ring at 50Y so in theory standing at 25Y with the same gun everything is in the X ring even if I have a small oops. But the reality is, when swinging the gun with the target with or without lead and everything goes OK, in a match my best is 475-?X. My best at our Nationals was 472, the 8's were not even close to the line. All operator error and had very little to do with lead or mislead. I have shot good scores with and without the leader front sight. It is just easier with.

In general I shoot between 466 and 474 most of the time at practice with the odd really good or really bad score to let me know where I really am.

I picked up the metallic gun last weekend for some giggles and it went below average.

I would be more concerned with my plates score than my mover score if a big match was on the way. No 8's on plates. 3 bad shots at mover = 474, three bad shoots on plates = 450.

[JRB]

Hey Guys.

I had to add my 2cents.

I shoot a 125 Zero JHP, with 5.2 WST. It makes about 128 to 130 power factor depending on the weather.

This means it will make power factor for Action Pistol / USPSA Min / IPSC Min / ICORE.

The load will shoot less than 1 inch at 50yrds,bench rest, that does not mean I can hold that at 50yrds standing, but it will do it, no problems.

It works for the mover great, and all the other events, I just need to learn how to shoot as well as the rest of you, ( some day ).

The one big issue is that it is very tough to have only one gun for all the types of shooting, if you are ok with not always finishing in the top few, then do it, but if you want to do really well, you must have only gun for each sport.

Now thats said, I have a 686PC 6", it's real cool, I can and have shot very well with it in all the above disciplines.

But my main gun is a 681 / c /1 custom made for AP, its very heavy, but it will shoot the eyes out of a flea, I can't but try hard.

Both guns are awesome, I love shooting them, but I should have stuck to an Auto, shot one for 26 years. but I love a challenge.

I know gm iprod will have some sort of nasty come back, bring it on.

Shoot lots of X's and most of all shoot and have fun.

Russell.

Edited August 2, 2013 by JRB

[Toolguy]

Hi Russell!

I hope you can come down and shoot the World Cup and Bianchi Cup with us!

[JRB]

The only way 2 make both matches is if I won the lottery, and my wife gets a hole better by then.

I think that the lottery is a better chance.

But with that said, I am still not sure if I would be allowed to compete at the world match, it says it's a team match, but I am unclear on the wording.

I would only be able to take enough time from work, I work for myself, for one of the 2 big matches.

Also Martin P has his matches in MI around the same time as the 2 big ones, the MI match is only 8 hours away for me. Kentucky is almost 18 hours away. Bianchi is 17 hours.

So with that said, I am going to buy a lottery ticket tonight, and hope,!!!!!!

I missed the Bianchi this year because I had not had a contract for a few months, and money was tight.

This is a great sport with some of the best people I have meet in the 30 years of shooting. most of you are willing to help, with nothing in return. and its fun trying to hit a 4" X at 50yrds, it was much easier to hit the trap target with my 12 gauge.

Be safe, and shoot only x's if you can.

Russell

[gm iprod]

Hey Melon Head, 18hrs, pussy, it takes us 24hrs to get there.

I am aiming at the X's but they don't seem to be where the bullet lands from time to time.

[JRB]

The only reason it takes that long, is because you still use canoe's to travel around, o ye I forget with Dodge Hemi's in them.

Melon Head.

[toothguy]

Hey Guys.

I had to add my 2cents.

I shoot a 125 Zero JHP, with 5.2 WST. It makes about 128 to 130 power factor depending on the weather.

This means it will make power factor for Action Pistol / USPSA Min / IPSC Min / ICORE.

The load will shoot less than 1 inch at 50yrds,bench rest, that does not mean I can hold that at 50yrds standing, but it will do it, no problems.

It works for the mover great, and all the other events, I just need to learn how to shoot as well as the rest of you, ( some day ).

Russell, I really like that load. If you zero it at 50yrds, it will hit less than 1/2'' high at 10yrds, and less than 1'' high at 25yrds.

Edited August 7, 2013 by toothguy

[JRB]

Hello Toothguy, your numbers are on the money.

If I could shoot my revolvers as well as they shoot, I could not lose.

It took me a lot of time to find this load, I had a lot of help from a friend at my home club.

Shooting the revolver is not an easy thing to do, when I had shot an auto for 25 years.

Loading for a revolver is even more difficult, trying to find the perfect powder is tough, I still would love to find a powder that filled the case more, but will stick with the WST for now.

Shoot well and lots of X's

Russell

[toothguy]

Hello Toothguy, your numbers are on the money.

If I could shoot my revolvers as well as they shoot, I could not lose.

It took me a lot of time to find this load, I had a lot of help from a friend at my home club.

Shooting the revolver is not an easy thing to do, when I had shot an auto for 25 years.

Loading for a revolver is even more difficult, trying to find the perfect powder is tough, I still would love to find a powder that filled the case more, but will stick with the WST for now.

Shoot well and lots of X's

Russell

My favorite load is 5.5 gr of 231 with the Zero 125 jhp. It is real close to your load. I am using a comp currently and have developed good loads using Power Pistol and Auto Comp. They are slower powders that fill the case more and have more gas to work the comp. When you compare the 231 load to the slower powder loads, there is more recoil in a gun without a comp. I also have good loads using Titegroup that is a faster powder,using less powder to fill the case. When I compared the 231 load to the Titegroup load, the faster powder load seemed snappier. I just got some WST so I need to experiment but I think it will be real close to the 231 load maybe a little better.

With all my production Bianchi loads I try for around 130pf. My current load is over that to work the comp more. I have noticed that to get the gun to shoot flat I pay for it on the Barracade.

[gm iprod]

toothguy,

I run 135pf and the barricade is deadly. X tape and GLF (grip like F..k).

Russ, Newest Hemi going fine. Needed new shoes though. More grip in these in the wet, the guys at work were getting touchy when they had to drive it, but it kept them to the speed limit.