trouble making major with WST, N320

[tbarker13]

So I am trying to work up a major load for a new gun.

I started with 180 gr BBIs with 5.0 grains of WST at 1.2 oal. The load worked great (171 pf), but the gun just doesn't seem to like BBIs.

So I've had to start over.

What I have right now are Berrys 180s and Zero 180s along with WST and N320.

I took eight different loads out to the range tonight and made pf with one of them - barely. I feel like I might already be pushing the limit on these. Hoping someone might have some thoughts.

All loads are with mixed brass and magtech primers. OAL 1.2.

Loading on a Dillon 650 with a Redding competition seating die and a Lee factory crimp die, with a fairly light crimp.

In the case of WST, I should mention the temperature outside was around 80 degrees.

Berrys 180

WST 5.0 = avg vel: 909 (pf 163.5)

WST 5.1 = avg vel: 903 (pf 162.5)

WST 5.2 = avg vel: 911 (pf 163.9)

Zero 180

WST 5.0 = avg vel: 856 (pf 154.0)

WST 5.1 = avg vel: 862 (pf 155.1)

WST 5.2 = avg vel: 890 (pf 160.2)

Zero 180

N320 5.3 = avg vel: 910 (pf 163.8)

N320 5.4 = avg vel: 920 (pf 165.6)

The Berrys/WST combo just seems to be going nowhere, which is unfortunate as it seems to be the most accurate.

The Zero/WST combo looks like I'd have to take it up to 5.3 or 5.4.

The Zero/N320 combo looks like I'd need to get it up to 5.5 gr.

[PKT1106]

If you aren't getting pressure signs, try shortening your OAL. Try 1.19" & 1.18" first and see what you get.

[jmbaccolyte]

Why do you think you "might be pushing the limit on these" loads? At 1.23" OAL and with the hottest summer temperatures, I have used up to 5.5 grains of WST with some bullets without any issues.

You say the gun didn't like the BBIs, what was the problem with them?

Edited July 1, 2013 by jmbaccolyte

[kimberacp]

SV gun I used to use TG/4.5 grs with Zero 180 FMJ @ 1.180 makes major but now I use WST a much better. better powder! 180 FMJ @ 1.180 / 5.2 grs of WST makes major.

TG was really harsh compared to WST, I really didnt think it would make that much of a difference but it did.

Try you ammo @ 1.180 OAL

[tbarker13]

I guess I'm just going off my searches of this forum for loads. I didn't come across many recipes that pushed much beyond 5.2 WST at 1.2 OAL.

I find the WST/Berry's combo to be the most frustrating. I increased the powder from 5.0 to 5.2 without any real increase in velocity. It's like the bullet is just refusing to go any faster.

I guess my next step is to take the N320/Zero and WST/Zero loads a little higher (or shorter).

As for the BBIs, they just won't chamber reliably in the gun. That's actually the reason I bought the Redding competition seating die (on the advice of the gun maker) - to see if that would help with increasing the reliability. After extensive email exchanges with the gunmaker over the BBI issue, it just seemed best to try other bullet options for this gun.

[jmbaccolyte]

I use Federal brand small pistol primers for load testing because they start to flatten earlier than my regular choice of Winchester small pistol primers. I prefer the Winchesters for normal use because the Federals take up an ungodly amount of room on my small shelf due to their packaging. I know a lot of people believe that reading primers is like reading tea leaves, but its worked for forty years for me, but I am by nature conservative and not much of a gambler. I work up loads in once fired cases and for maximum pressure loads, I back off when the Federal primer starts to flatten, then switch to the Winchester primers. A more accurate method is to buy an expensive micrometer that measures in ten-thousandths of an inch and measure case head expansion.

WST is reverse temperature sensitive so you need to use more on hotter days to make a given power factor, but I believe its benefits ( clean, low smoke, low perceived recoil for the power and relatively inexpensive) out-weigh that issue. You can load for different temperature ranges or just load for the hottest days that you are likely to encounter and live with a little more recoil than is necessary on the cooler days.

As you've already found out, a chronograph is a very important part of the load development. Your results will vary based on the bullet shape, bullet weight, the overall cartridge length, significant changes in velocity (standard deviation), etc.

Happy reloading!

Edited July 2, 2013 by jmbaccolyte

[tbarker13]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've got a list of 10 more loads I will try, some increasing the powder from above. Others going shorter.

With the Berrys

WST 5.2 @ 1.19

WST 5.2 @ 1.18

WST 5.3 @ 1.2

WST 5.4 @ 1.2

With the ZEROs

N320 5.2 @ 1.18

N320 5.2 @ 1.19

N320 5.3 @ 1.19

N320 5.5 @ 1.2

WST 5.2 @ 1.18

WST 5.2 @ 1.19

Edited July 2, 2013 by tbarker13

[cslafrain]

Tim

Send me a PM bout what your issues with loading BBI was. Due to popular demand we have changed the standard size on 40S&W projectiles to 0.400 which has made them chamber significantly better on tight chambered 2011/1911 firearms. Thanks in advance for your contact.

[BBoyle]

With the BBIs load a little shorter and it may solve the clambering issues. Not all bullet shapes are the same, even when they look it there can be differences. I would just jump it down to 1.80 and try a hundred with mixed brass and see how it works for you.

[robb315]

What are the BBI's sized to? I had a chambering issue with some that were sized to .401 and I sent them back and had them resized to .400 and that solved the issue. They just smoke like a freight train.

[tbarker13]

I'm going to try out some BBIs sized to .400.

[cslafrain]

What are the BBI's sized to? I had a chambering issue with some that were sized to .401 and I sent them back and had them resized to .400 and that solved the issue. They just smoke like a freight train.

Robb315,

What powder are you using? We here rumblings of "smoke too much" at times but it is few and far between - usually when TiteGroup is being used. I have only ever shot BBI (from the previous owner) and Bayou so I don't know any different and the smoke from either has never been an issue. Well maybe once when I gave some of my loads to a friend during a night match - but that was just for fun.

[robb315]

Running WST

4.3 grs. under 200 grain BBI at 1.190"

Averaging about 172 pf.

Outdoors they are not too bad, indoors is when I really notice it a lot. Especially when engaging multiple targets from one location.

[fmj3]

I just chrono'd a WST .40 load thru my 6" Glock build (LWD barrel).

4.2 grain WST

180gr Black Bullet Int'l (.400 size)

1.140 OAL

170PF

I've had zero feed issues with the BBI 165gr or 180gr bullets. No smoke problems with these either - using Clays or WST.

Edited July 5, 2013 by fmj3

[CDPMatt]

Try the .400 BBI's ad I bet that fixes you up. I run the 180gr @1.2" with 4.8gr of WST in my 5" 2011. Runs great.

[Jaxshooter]

I have loaded both 180 gr BBI and Zero 180 JHPs with N-320 and have never had a problem making major. The gun is a Brazos Limited 5" barrel.

180 gr Zero JHP

3.7 gr N-320

1.180 OAL

WSRP

171 PF

180 BBI

4.0 gr N-320

1.180 OAL

WSRP

169.5 PF

Edited July 5, 2013 by Jaxshooter

[Knary50]

Running WST

4.3 grs. under 200 grain BBI at 1.190"

Averaging about 172 pf.

Outdoors they are not too bad, indoors is when I really notice it a lot. Especially when engaging multiple targets from one location.

Using N320 and Solo 1000 both I see quite a bit of smoke indoors as well. Maybe slightly less with N320. Outdoors it is not as bad, but what is the point in using one of the most expensive powders with the cheaper bullets ? Also one other guy we shoot with uses Bayou with Solo and N320 and his does not nearly smoke as much as the BBI.

[tbarker13]

Better results this last time out. (Will also soon try out the .400 BBIs)

With the Berrys

WST 5.2 @ 1.19 avg. 954 pf 171.7

WST 5.2 @ 1.18 avg. 946 pf 170.2

WST 5.3 @ 1.2 avg. 951 pf 171.1

WST 5.4 @ 1.2 avg. 944 pf 169.9

With the ZEROs

N320 5.2 @ 1.18 avg. 923 pf 166.1

N320 5.2 @ 1.19 avg. 909 pf 163.6

N320 5.3 @ 1.19 avg 928 pf 167.0

N320 5.5 @ 1.2 avg 953 pf 171.5

WST 5.2 @ 1.18 avg. 913 pf 164.3

WST 5.2 @ 1.19 avg. 917 pf 165,0

[CHA-LEE]

One thing to keep in mind is the temperature of the ammo during your chrono testing. WST is very temperature sensitive and the hotter the ammo is the slower your velocity will be. I use 5.5gr of WST using a 180gr Rainier Ballistics Round Nose Flat Point bullet with an OAL of 1.225 and Winchester Magnum small pistol primers. This setup produces a solid 168 - 169 PF with HOT 100+ degree ammo. When the ammo is 70 - 80 degrees its usually in the 171 - 172 PF range.