My First AD

[Lifeislarge]

So I had my first AD today during a match. Blessed that no one was hurt (gun pointed at the berm) and that it was on the last stage. I was transitioning between targets, not moving but either I had a piss poor grip or simply jerked the trigger when going from one target to the next. It was clearly an AD so there was nothing I could do but accept the DQ and walk away. Bummed because I was finally shooting a good match after 3 dismal weeks. Lesson learned is that I need to be cognizant of the trigger even during lesser movements. Might have been getting over confident. Yes I was shooting the stage at warp speed (it was a hoser with a ton of close targets). Again, very grateful that the worst thing to happen was a DQ.

[Sarge]

Read your rule book and then kick yourself for accepting a DQ for what you described.

[GrumpyOne]

Sarge is right. By what you describe, no AD. What was the section they wrote on your scorecard for the DQ?

Edited June 23, 2013 by GrumpyOne

[Lifeislarge]

Regardless of the match results, the rules, and the DQ, it freaked me out pretty bad that my gun went off without me intentionally firing it. I place safety as the number one priority in handling firearms and I failed in that today. It was an eye opener for sure. It's been almost a year since I got my Edge and with the trigger it has, I'm almost surprised that it hasn't happened sooner. I'll remember this for a long time and it was probably the best circumstances to get the lesson.

[sperman]

IMO, you did the right thing by putting safety over everything else. We need more shooters like you in the sport.

[sfchorn]

Bravo to you for taking the time to consider what happened. The takeaway from this is that most accidents are not due to a single failure - they occur due to a cascade failure. Multiple things happen either simultaneously or in sequence to arrive at a certain point in space and time.

You slip on loose gravel (1) breaking the 90 degree median intercept (2) causing you to sweep an inattentive scorekeeper (3) while your finger is on the trigger (4).

Being a safe shooter means that we stop the cascade before it gets to number 5 (gun fires) by not having our finger on the trigger.

I have a good friend who slipped on loose gravel at a major match (possibly an Area championship - don't remember.) The RO on the stage said the sweetest sound he had heard all day was the "click" of the thumb safety going on as my friend fell. Not only did he not have his finger on the trigger, he had the presence of mind to flip on the safety as he fell.

I would also agree with Sarge and ask that you know the rulebook. While you may choose to quietly contemplate what happened as a competitor, make sure as an RO you correctly apply the rules. By the rulebook, your situation was no AD, no DQ.

[Lifeislarge]

I'm trying really hard not to dwell on my failure to know the rules. Never bin reel gud at book lernin.. Even my fellow competitors that I have talked to since have validated the fact that it shouldn't have been a DQ. Sucks, oh well. Live and learn. I will be taking another look at the rool book to try and understand better the technicalities. Funny thing is, the RO called it a DQ, and when someone else asked him if we needed the MD to come by, he said "no". Aren't RO's supposed to know the rules? The other thing to consider is that there were some pretty heavy thunder clouds building fast and everyone was in a race to finish and get stuff put away before the SHTF. And it did, just as we were driving off. I'm not going to sweat the small stuff here guys. Now if this had been a bigger match with travel involved and fees and such, man things would've gotten tense.

[GuildSF4]

10.4 Match Disqualification – Accidental Discharge

A competitor who causes an accidental discharge must be stopped by a Range Officer as soon as possible. An accidental discharge is defined as follows:

10.4.1 A shot, which travels over a backstop, a berm or in any other direction, specified in the written stage briefing by the match organizers as being unsafe. Note that a competitor who legitimately fires a shot at a target, which then travels in an unsafe direction, will not be disqualified (the provisions of Section 2.3 may apply).

10.4.2 A shot which strikes the ground within 10 feet of the competitor, except when shooting at a paper target closer than 10 feet to the competitor.

10.4.2.1 Exception — A bullet which strikes the ground within 10 feet of the competitor due to a “squib”.

...

10.4.6 A shot which occurs during movement, except while actually shooting at targets.

(This is the exception, unless the shot goes in an unsafe direction as in 10.4.1)

Yes, you need the Range Master.

7.1.6 Range Master (“RM”) – has overall authority over all persons and activities within the entire range, including range safety, the operation of all courses of fire and the application of these rules. All match disqualifications and appeals to arbitration must be brought to his attention. The Range Master is usually appointed by and works with the Match Director, however, in respect of USPSA sanctioned Level III and Nationals matches, the appointment of the Range Master is subject to the prior written approval of the Director of NROI.

10.3.2 When a match disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the time and date of the incident, on the competitor’s score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.

Edited for clarity

Edited June 24, 2013 by GuildSF4

[Lifeislarge]

Thank you for that. I suppose that after almost two years of shooting USPSA it's high time I study the rule book, especially since it could work in my favor. I guess I've been one of the lazy masses who counts on the fact that somebody knows the damn rules.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Lifeislarge

[Tim/GA]

I just ran across this thread and realized you were talking about our match when you talked about the storms. As the MD/RM I need to apologize for my not knowing about the DQ at the time. I did not find out about it until after everyone had gotten done rushing to get the stages down and props put away before the storm and most were gone.

I have already let the ROs and others were were present when I found out about the DQ know that they should have notified me at the time (this was right after the match). Even if there is no issue with the DQ (in other words the shooter is not disputing it) and even if it is a Level 1 match I still like to talk to the shooter any time it happens. It might have been due to the storm or it might have been a combination of that and that you shoot with some of the guys at other clubs and did not question the DQ. Either way, I do apologize for my not being notified and I will make sure I address it to everyone at the next match shooter's meeting (since so many end up acting as ROs). Hope to see you again at one of our matches.

As a new CRO, RO and MD (for about 2 1/2 years) I have picked up a couple of things. 1- knowing the rules is a GOOD thing, but even then people make mistakes. 2- the ROs (at both local and major) matches make the decision they believe is right in short time span to keep things moving, that is why any question and things like DQs are refereed to the RM. They have the time to look a bit closer, be it a scoring question or other like a DQ. 3- if the RO has a problem with a shooter asking for clarification or a 2nd look by the RM then they are the ones who need to look at how they are handling things (assuming the shooter is doing it calmly, but even if not). Nothing personal about it.

If you get a chance, the RO class is a big help- both as an RO and as a shooter. I had hoped to hold a class this past spring and am still hoping to later this year maybe.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Tim/GA

[Tim/GA]

I just wanted to add that I have seen this one before in that many feel that an AD is really an ND and that a shooter who did not mean to fire at that moment is a DQ. That is not what the USPSA rule book shows, as shown above. I am not saying the ROs made the wrong call, can't do that now, but that they should have notified me.

From the way that you describe it I would not see it as a DQ, but that said I would have to see the spot and have the RO also explain what they saw and why they called it. Hearing it after the fact, from one side and off the stage makes it impossible to determine and I cannot/could not make a decision. That is why it is important to have the RM called as soon as possible.

edit for spelling

Edited July 3, 2013 by Tim/GA

[ktm300]

I will admit to having a few Early shots a month. I tend to prep the trigger as I push the gun towards the target and sometimes it goes off a little early. The nice part about it is most hit the target and some are even A hits. Shot a classifier two weeks ago that was turn and draw to a head shot. Turned, got the gun out while getting my head turned towards the target, brought the gun the rest of the way around and BANG! It was Virginia count so I shot the other shot in that target and went on. When scoring it was A-B with the RO saying the A was the early shot. I guess I just need to get out of the way and let my finger decide when to let the shot loose.

Just to be clear, I don't start to prep the trigger until I am addressing a target.

[Lifeislarge]

I just wanted to add that I have seen this one before in that many feel that an AD is really an ND and that a shooter who did not mean to fire at that moment is a DQ. That is not what the USPSA rule book shows, as shown above. I am not saying the ROs made the wrong call, can't do that now, but that they should have notified me.

From the way that you describe it I would not see it as a DQ, but that said I would have to see the spot and have the RO also explain what they saw and why they called it. Hearing it after the fact, from one side and off the stage makes it impossible to determine and I cannot/could not make a decision. That is why it is important to have the RM called as soon as possible.

edit for spelling

I appreciate you addressing the issue but really, it's a non-issue. In my mind, it's long over. You guys put on a good match up there and it's too bad the weather changed so fast and nobody could hang out afterwards. I'm sure we'll be making the trip again soon. Thanks.

[450AK]

Lifeislarge, you are a class act and I wish more guys like you would have that kind of attitude. If the RO's call was right or wrong it doesn't matter but your attitude was RIGHT! We all are out there to have fun and enjoy the shooting sports and keep each other safe. It could of happend to any of us. We aren't going to when a million bucks or a new car. So live, learn, keep your head up and have fun.

Matt.

I just wanted to add that I have seen this one before in that many feel that an AD is really an ND and that a shooter who did not mean to fire at that moment is a DQ. That is not what the USPSA rule book shows, as shown above. I am not saying the ROs made the wrong call, can't do that now, but that they should have notified me.

From the way that you describe it I would not see it as a DQ, but that said I would have to see the spot and have the RO also explain what they saw and why they called it. Hearing it after the fact, from one side and off the stage makes it impossible to determine and I cannot/could not make a decision. That is why it is important to have the RM called as soon as possible.

edit for spelling

I appreciate you addressing the issue but really, it's a non-issue. In my mind, it's long over. You guys put on a good match up there and it's too bad the weather changed so fast and nobody could hang out afterwards. I'm sure we'll be making the trip again soon. Thanks.