Titegroup, Win 231, WSF Question

[zetti1]

I really like using 147gr 9mm FMJ RN bullets from Precision Delta, but I’ve had difficulty getting them so I ordered their 124gr bullets. I have Titegroup, Win 231 and WSF. If I loaded 10 rounds using TG, 10 rounds using Win 231 and 10 rounds using WSF and all rounds achieved a 130 PF, would I experience the same muzzle flip from all 30 rounds? I know all three powders have different burn rates, but if the PF is the same, would I experience any difference between the test rounds? Thanks in advance for your input.

[blairmckenzie1]

Some people say that titegroup is "snappy". I shoot 4.0 grains under a MG 124 and really like it. Ive also heard that a really fast burning powder and heavy for caliber bullets can give you problems if you have any kind of bullet set back.

231 can be kinda smokey.

I've never loaded any WSF, cant help you there.

[Brent D]

Here is an excellent site to help answer the question you have. http://www.38super.net

In short, recoil or muzzle flip is affected by the amount of gas produced. If you are using a fast powder, i.e. Titegroup, it will take less powder to reach a velocity than using a slower powder to reach the same velocity. Less powder, less gas. More powder, more gas. So loading the same bullet with a fast powder theoretically should produce less muzzle flip than that bullet with a slower powder. This is why we use slow burning powders in Open, because we want a lot of powder to produce a lot of gas to work the compensator. Check out the site I referenced. It is excellent.

[CeeZer]

The rule, that comes from practice, is - faster powder= 'softer' recoil/ammo.

With FMJ or lead bullets and TG - watch for smoke as TG burns hot, temp wise. FMJ have exposed lead base.

For 124gr bullet and Minor PF ammo, you prolly want a powder at or above Win 231 burn rates.

My fav for last couple years is Clays; just don't load it with any bullets heavier than 124/130gr.

TG can be safely used with 147gr bullets thou.

WSF is better suited for Major loads rather than Minor. WST is a better choice for Minor.

[superdude]

This specific article should help answer your question.

http://38super.net/Pages/Gunpowder%20and%20Recoil.html

[varminter22]

My fav for last couple years is Clays; just don't load it with any bullets heavier than 124/130gr.

TG can be safely used with 147gr bullets thou.

Uh oh. I'm just starting to get set up to shoot .38 Short Colt in a new (to me) 627.

And planning to use Clays with 147 gr copper plated bullets and 142 gr FMJ bullets.

What is the issue with using Clays and bullets heavier than 130 gr???

[mcracco]

It all sounds good in theory but when I compared Titegroup to WSF (9mm / 124gr), WSF was far more pleasant to shoot and was plenty accurate. I gave the Titegroup away.

I would load 25 or 50 of each and go with what feels best to you.

BTW, I shoot IDPA and recoil/muzzle flip is not an issue.

[CocoBolo]

Going by feel isn't very accurate, set up a course of fire and see which one is faster with that silly little thing we call a timer. It might just suprise you. Don't forget accuracy counts.

124gr Jacketed, just get N320 and be done dinking around.

[mike3232]

I use 124 mg and 4.0 of TG. Very accurate. It is very nice shooting. It's a little snappy but that is what I was going for.

[varminter22]

... just get N320 and be done dinking around.

Wish I could find some N320.

----

Again, what is the issue with using Clays and bullets heavier than 130 gr???

Edited May 27, 2013 by varminter22

[robertftw]

... just get N320 and be done dinking around.

Wish I could find some N320.

I was thinking the same thing...

[8ring]

All three powders work with 9mm. WSF may not have the lightest recoil impulse but it can be very accurate with 9mm FMJ 115 and 124gr bullets. It behaves very well at the velocities needed to make 130 -135 PF. Some even use 4.0gr WSF under 147gr 9mm bullets. It also meters very well.

Chris

[varminter22]

My fav for last couple years is Clays; just don't load it with any bullets heavier than 124/130gr.

TG can be safely used with 147gr bullets thou.

Uh oh. I'm just starting to get set up to shoot .38 Short Colt in a new (to me) 627.

And planning to use Clays with 147 gr copper plated bullets and 142 gr FMJ bullets.

What is the issue with using Clays and bullets heavier than 130 gr???

Got me really curious as I'm planning to test my new (to me) 627 loading Clays in .38 Short Colt brass with Montana Gold 142 gr FMJ and Xtreme 147 gr copper plated bullets.

[CeeZer]

Clays is 'faster' than TG and builds up pressure VERY fast in barrel. Heavier bullets DON'T get moving as fast as lighter bullets, and thus not creating extra volume (as fast) for gases behind them. You don't want extreme barrel pressures in your gun when you shoot it. Pipe bomb is not the thing you wanna hold when it goes off.

I personally saw guys blowing their $5000 guns at matches (due to double charge thou) and getting injured.

As much as I'd LOVE to use N320, it's not just expensive but is difficult to locate too.

My loads of 124gr Berry's RN bullets use 3.6gr of Clays, making Minor. Very good accuracy too.

Your press' powder drop has to handle Clays thou, flakes are pretty large.

[thermobollocks]

Personally, with Clays, I flattened primers before I made minor in 9mm with 147 grain lead. It's great for Steel Challenge, though.

My fav for last couple years is Clays; just don't load it with any bullets heavier than 124/130gr.

TG can be safely used with 147gr bullets thou.

Uh oh. I'm just starting to get set up to shoot .38 Short Colt in a new (to me) 627.

And planning to use Clays with 147 gr copper plated bullets and 142 gr FMJ bullets.

What is the issue with using Clays and bullets heavier than 130 gr???

Got me really curious as I'm planning to test my new (to me) 627 loading Clays in .38 Short Colt brass with Montana Gold 142 gr FMJ and Xtreme 147 gr copper plated bullets.

I'm in the same boat. I tried Xtreme's 125s, and both Titegroup and Power Pistol made minor handily in the Short Colt. The 147s seem ideal, but it'll be a bit before I can play with them. When I ran some 9mm through my chrono, with 3.0 grains of Titegroup and the Xtreme 147 RN seated to 1.14" OAL, I barely made minor (5" M&P). I don't know if I'm seating them too long or loading them too light.

[jcc7x7]

I find WSF a good alternative to VV powders that are hard to find where I presently am. (i.e not in TX) regarding felt recoil and consistant , i.e. low SD on 9mm loads. Remember this is all very subjective. like some one else said. set up some courses of fire and run them with a time and score them etc to see which load you shoot best.

I use a a heavier PF load in my 9 production gun cause I shoot / score better with it. May be that I'm used to shoot SS 45acp. It doesn't matter what works for me but what works for you. Try a 100 of all three loads and you'll start to get an idea what you like and shoot better.