gng4life Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Movement . . . . . . . . . . . .Taking more than one step in any direction, or changing body position (e.g. from standing to kneeling, from seated to standing etc.) It would be a stretch to say finger movement is the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I was one that tossed the prop at the wall and missed. Had to take it out with my hand. I sure don't see a rule that talks about shooting props. If you aim at the prop it's not an AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 You can't just DQ a shooter because they did something you don't like. They have to have violated a rule, and you have to write down that rule number on the scoresheet. If you put 10.4.6 on the scoresheet and the shooter wasn't moving, he's going to file an arb and be back in the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Yeah, I agree with Sperman, I'm sure they'll get off on that one and it will be all for nothing. Nik and Lee have a good point with 10.6.1 and would probably be the only option if the shooter was not moving...that would be a lot of arguing depending on the RM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Movement . . . . . . . . . . . .Taking more than one step in any direction, or changing body position (e.g. from standing to kneeling, from seated to standing etc.) It would be a stretch to say finger movement is the same... I was being somewhat of a smartass about the finger movement. You had to move to position the gun to shoot at the object. Your moving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heckler Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Josh the stage creator, 6'8" tall and 285 SOLID pounds, was not happy about people throwing and smashing his props together. I would not want to be between him and whoever started shooting holes in his props....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 You can't just DQ a shooter because they did something you don't like. They have to have violated a rule, and you have to write down that rule number on the scoresheet. If you put 10.4.6 on the scoresheet and the shooter wasn't moving, he's going to file an arb and be back in the match. The OP asked if you could shoot blocks of wood in a wall that have to be removed to see USPSA targets to engage. If you can't see the targets and you had to get the gun in position--your telling me their was no movement...... And who said anything about DQ a shooter for something you don't like. I'm getting the drift you would condone shooting the blocks out to open the ports? Tell me I'm wrong or did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Movement . . . . . . . . . . . .Taking more than one step in any direction, or changing body position (e.g. from standing to kneeling, from seated to standing etc.) It would be a stretch to say finger movement is the same... I was being somewhat of a smartass about the finger movement. You had to move to position the gun to shoot at the object. Your moving! Negative, you could have stood still from the start position, drawing is not considered movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Josh the stage creator, 6'8" tall and 285 SOLID pounds, was not happy about people throwing and smashing his props together. I would not want to be between him and whoever started shooting holes in his props....... Hehehe...no kidding, this phrase keeps going through my head..."Hulk Smash!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Movement . . . . . . . . . . . .Taking more than one step in any direction, or changing body position (e.g. from standing to kneeling, from seated to standing etc.) It would be a stretch to say finger movement is the same... I was being somewhat of a smartass about the finger movement. You had to move to position the gun to shoot at the object. Your moving! Negative, you could have stood still from the start position, drawing is not considered movement. Could you point me to the rule that states that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Refer to post 26 on the definition of movement...if that is not clear enough, we should pose this to DNROI for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) What if the shooter isn't moving? his finger moved! He had to move to get the gun in position. Don't over devil it.... Surely you jest. You gonna DQ a guy for a late (or early) shot during a transition between two targets because he was "moving?" Edited May 7, 2013 by spanky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I'm getting the drift you would condone shooting the blocks out to open the ports? Tell me I'm wrong or did I miss something? I certainly would not condone shooting the blocks out, but I need a rule to support a DQ. 10.6.1 would probably work, 10.4.6 would not (assuming the shooter isn't moving per the definition in the USPSA rulebook.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 What if the shooter isn't moving? his finger moved! He had to move to get the gun in position. Don't over devil it.... Surely you jest.You gonna DQ a guy for a late (or early) shot during a transition between two targets because he was "moving?" see my later post......never said that or implied it as you stated your question, but if your late (or early) shot a wall 6 inches before the port opening or the end of the wall----what target are you engaging ? What do you call that shot or action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I'm getting the drift you would condone shooting the blocks out to open the ports? Tell me I'm wrong or did I miss something? I certainly would not condone shooting the blocks out, but I need a rule to support a DQ. 10.6.1 would probably work, 10.4.6 would not (assuming the shooter isn't moving per the definition in the USPSA rulebook.) When does movement start and stop according to the USPSA rulebook? How did the shooter get to the position of shooting the blocks out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 When does movement start and stop according to the USPSA rulebook? How did the shooter get to the position of shooting the blocks out? I don't see anything on movement starting and stopping. It just says about getting into and out of positions, moving from one location to another, etc. How did they get to the position? It was the start position and they could have shot from there without movement. I sent an email to DNROI for clarification and hope to report back soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Respectfully, this is as asinine of a question as asking if you can shoot a stomp box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too_Slow Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 The shooter can not shoot from the start position it is not inside the FFZ. So if he shot from there it would at the least give him procedurals. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 The shooter can not shoot from the start position it is not inside the FFZ. So if he shot from there it would at the least give him procedurals. Brian But it was in the shooting area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Ok, got a response back from DNROI. Interestingly enough, he stated he would have declared an FA if it occurred, added it to the WSB, had the shooter reshoot the stage and then zero anyone after that. As far as movement, he just stated that it starts when the shooter starts to move and ends when the shooter stops but no details other than that. Any time in-between that, the finger must be off the trigger. He also added that if anyone asked if they could shoot the blocks/boards out, he would have said no since that was not the intention of the stage, it was needing physical input from the shooter and shooting the symbols out is not considered physical input. I hope we can all be satisfied with this and move on...I am... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Adding a FA to the WSB means the shooter gets a 0 score for the stage, but IMO precludes any DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Zero a shooter who was never made aware of an FA and it was not an FA at the time they did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Adding a FA to the WSB means the next shooter who shoots the port gets a 0 score for the stage, but IMO precludes any DQ. Fixed it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 Chuck fixed it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted May 8, 2013 Share Posted May 8, 2013 So... we're stating it's ok for ONE shooter to intentionally shoot a prop, and in this case break one of the laws of safety by shooting a wall without knowing what was behind it, so we can create a FA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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