Why not 9mm major?

[remoandiris]

Before you decide to move into Open, I think you just need to ask me, Mike, George, Bill Q, Fritz, Dean and a few others to line up in a bay and let you shoot our guns. Me, Fritz, Dean and Q have 9s. Fritz and I shoot 124s, Dean and Q shoot 115s. Then you get the Super guys other there. Alex is the only SC shooter I know at the club, the rest are regular Super. That'll give you some idea of varying loads, recoil, etc. My PF is anywhere between 168 and 172 depending on temperature and altitude.

BTW, you will most likely find a powder that works for you and stick with it. 6.7 gr of WAC works for me.

[Sarge]

I have 3 big sticks that all hold 30 rounds. Two old style SV and 1 new STI.

How do you get a STI tube to hold 30?? Please do tell

If you can get the work done or have enough guts to do it yourself it usually entails increasing the length of the ribs or tapering them down farther in the mag. Even removing some material from the ribs themselves. Then using bolen springs and followers which will then go much further into the mag when compressed. The Bolen followers look like a potato chip so there is not as much material on the bottom. However, if not done right the bolen will flip over if you push it below the modified ribs or if you try to use it in a stock mag and push it down too far. Thus you get the salt shaker and party over.

This is one reason tuned mags cost so much. Too me it's just not worth it. On a 32 round COF you still have to reload. On any COF there are generally enough places to reload that it just doesn't make sense to risk giving up the reliability.

I think some even claim 31 is possible with 38SC?

[Chris Keen]

30 is not that hard to do yourself if you know what you're doing. SV mags and a modified Grams follower and I get 30 in Super.

[Paul-the new guy]

Its may just be me but it seems like 9 major was the hot ticket for a minute but super or SC seems to be gaining in popularity again. Brass isn't that hard to get for super or SC it is just expensive. Even used it is over $0.10 per round -vs- 9mm which is $0.03 You can load super brass till the headstamp wears off the case. I have nickel cases that look brass again and they still have not split. You know what they say... get one and shoot it!

[shooter995]

30 is not that hard to do yourself if you know what you're doing. SV mags and a modified Grams follower and I get 30 in Super.

Chris I agree, I have a SV tube that is 30 loadable. I was just curious how he was able to get 30 rounds in a STI tube! I was under the assumption that it couldn't be done. Ohh guess it doesn't matter, like sarge said, you still have to reload!

[Nimitz]

Hey Bill, that would be pretty cool if I could figure out a way to get the six of you to line up in a bay after a match & shoot your guns! I guess i could offer everyone a free Seeklander autographed photo ,,,, Jack let me try out his open gun after Saturday's match (38SC) but since it was the first time i'd ever pulled the trigger on a open gun I don't think I learned much except that it shoots very flat with none of the recoil impulse like on my G34. luckily, I'm not looking to move to open immediately but I have decided to start researching so when I am ready I can move out smartly ...

[Parallax3D]

I plan to move to open in the next year or so. I am thinking about opting for a 9mm for the brass issue... however, how many of you open shooters are reloading your spent 9mm brass? I am pretty diligent about picking up my .40 brass, but I have seen more then a few flat 9mm primers after a USPSA match.

Reload 'em till they split or you lose them. I ONLY use previously fired brass, and have for years. Never a problem.

[Nimitz]

I've actually never bought a piece of brass since I began reloading but it's all been minor PF .. I know most open shooters try to pick up their brass and mark it but it didn't know how much you could expect out of a single case at major PF ...

[Koppi]

I have re-shot 9mm major brass several times. The problem is if your not practicing you never get your own brass back

[Chris iliff]

At home I have picked up and reloaded my own 9 brass upwards of 6-7 times. these were all shot at 172 PF. I don't bother with that anymore, a friend comes over and I usually tell him he can have whatever he picks up, saves him some money.

The facts for me are that 9 is very do able at major pf, there are plenty of powders, brass can be reloaded several times.

Why not 9mm, hmmmmm?

Couldn't tell you. Some people get stuck on reasons for no reason other than they heard this or that from this or that guy.

I can think of tangible negatives that I've encountered, but only for the 38 variants. Like........ Picking up brass, brass is more expensive, I have to mark my brass. Where did that piece of brass go? Here, that's my brass, see the mark. Can I look through your pile of brass for some of my brass?

For me, 9 is a no brainier. Good thing too!

[Nimitz]

agree with everything you said but just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something since it doesn't seem like its overwhelming that open shooters shoot 9 major. I was hoping for an easy choice like in Production where EVERYONE shoots 9mm ...

[Chris iliff]

I think it would be agreeable to say that there is no "one" argument that's going to win the caliber debate in OPEN.

The one drawback I find for 9 I mentioned in my first post. I do think it's recoil impulse is a little more harsh, snappy, cracky. This is fairly subjective, so ymmv. I don't think it is anything to dwell on as a negative per se, just something I noticed. I shot Super for 5-6 years exclusively before I switched to 9 exclusively.

[Nimitz]

Agreed. I'll just have to see if I can try out some 9mm and 38SC side by side to see if I can notice any recoil impulse difference. I went through this with the 124 vs 147 debate for 9 mm minor. I loaded up about 50 rds of each and randomly put them into a few mags and just shot until they were gone ... Honestly couldn't tell any difference so I stayed with 124s ... As my grip strength continues to grow I don't seem to notice subtle differences in recoil impulse ... Or maybe I'm just clueless ....

[remoandiris]

I don't seem to notice subtle differences in recoil impulse ... Or maybe I'm just clueless ....

Mike talks about the impulse and such, but I feel no difference in his, George's, Kelly's or my gun. Guess I'm not aware of the subtle recoil feelings either.

Edited April 22, 2013 by remoandiris

[rgkeller]

I have an Open pistol with two barrels that shoots 9 major or Super or Supercomp.

I was expecting a softer flatter feel from super/sc and, even after trying many powders, I did not get it.

Smiths have figured out the 9 major so reliability is no longer a differentiation.

If you buy once fired single head stamp 9mm brass, shoot it once in practice, pick it up and reload it for matches and leave it on the ground you'll have nice reloading experiences and good ammo at two cents a case or so. And no scrambling at matches for your super brass.

I recommend 9mm major.

[Nimitz]

yeah, if I don't notice any difference in recoil impluse I expect I'll go with 9 to avoid all the brass related "issues" ... I would also assume the specific gun would be a factor in how recoil impulse reacts? If so, finding someone with the gun I would plan to get as well as the caliber would be the simplest way to determine what works for me. Can't imagine spending that kind of money for an open gun without shooting the exact model I'm interested in first ....

[Parallax3D]

I'll just have to see if I can try out some 9mm and 38SC side by side to see if I can notice any recoil impulse difference. I went through this with the 124 vs 147 debate for 9 mm minor. I loaded up about 50 rds of each and randomly put them into a few mags and just shot until they were gone ... Honestly couldn't tell any difference so I stayed with 124s

The difference in recoil is going to be between bullet weights and powder. Faster powders have softer recoil, but may not produce enough gas to properly work the comp. I know that I started shooting 115gr because it was what was available, (freaking ammo shortages!), but I found that I liked the recoil better. The gun was flatter because there was more powder, so more gas volume to work the comp. I had been shooting 124gr, and there was a noticeable difference. Of course, right now I'll shoot whatever I can get my hands on!

[McGlock]

9Major here.. Shooting 172pf out of my open glock. Haven't run into issues woth brass.. Using 124grain bullet with 3n37. A little snappy but works well for me. Availability of brass is what i like versus 38sc. I just sorted a huge bucket o brass and only got 8 casings of 38sc versus the 1000 or so 9mm casings..

[shooter995]

I shoot 9 Major, did it in my Glock last year, and am doing it in both my STI's this year. I have tried the hype of 121's & 115's. If you really pay attention to what the dot is doing, then you"ll find out what works best for you. I found that the theory of more gas "working the comp" is not always true. I run a Cheely Gun with his new comp, with 115's it is flatter, but not nearly as predictable as 124/125's. In recoil the dot but move up. then dip down past the original point of aim, then come back up, hints not predictable. The 121's were not as bad, but the 124/125's would lift then come right back!

I haven't messed with a ton of powder, and right now really isn't the time to do so! I am using Win Auto Comp, I have tried IMR7625. I was able to make major with 124's with no problem. I would mind trying HS6, but I hear it's very dirty. AC is clean & meters extremely well.

The load I settled on was 6.8grns of AC with a 124/125 JHP (MG or the new Zero) @ 1.150. Makes 171 all day. The load I was using the beginning of this year was 7.0grns of AC with MG 124JHP @ 1.160. It was noticeably more harsh to shoot.

9 Major is easy & cheaper then Super/Super Comp, so ill shoot my brass & leave it lay!!!

[EkuJustice]

If its dipping when the slide closes the. Recoil spring is to heavy

[shooter995]

If its dipping when the slide closes the. Recoil spring is to heavy

It has a 8lb in it

[Chris Keen]

Try a 7lb spring with a Shock Buff.

[shooter995]

Try a 7lb spring with a Shock Buff.

I will have to ask Matt about the spring weight, I know he said NO shock buff!

[Chris Keen]

Yeah Matt told me NO shock buff, and I ran one in one of his LTD guns for a couple years. No problems. He also told me to use a 12lb. spring in LTD and I still ran a 10lb. without a hitch.

Most gunsmiths know that the average shooter has little, to no working knowledge of their own gun. Many shooters don't even know how to strip down the lower half of their own gun, much less how to identify when their shock buff and / or recoil spring needs replacing. The fact is the lower the recoil spring weight, the more often you will have to replace it. I replace my recoil spring every month. Especially if I have a major match coming up, and since I shoot an avg. of 1 Major per month, I change the recoil spring. But most shooters don't change their recoil spring twice a YEAR, if that. This kind of behavior leads to customers calling up their gunsmith and complaining about how terrible the gun is running, when in fact it's their own doing by neglecting the mechanical aspect of the gun & associated springs.

So many gunsmiths will tell people to use a little heavier spring than what is possible, only when extreme care is taken to ensure the gun is not undersprung, feeds reliably, and is changed regularly.

[shooter995]

Yeah Matt told me NO shock buff, and I ran one in one of his LTD guns for a couple years. No problems. He also told me to use a 12lb. spring in LTD and I still ran a 10lb. without a hitch.

Most gunsmiths know that the average shooter has little, to no working knowledge of their own gun. Many shooters don't even know how to strip down the lower half of their own gun, much less how to identify when their shock buff and / or recoil spring needs replacing. The fact is the lower the recoil spring weight, the more often you will have to replace it. I replace my recoil spring every month. Especially if I have a major match coming up, and since I shoot an avg. of 1 Major per month, I change the recoil spring. But most shooters don't change their recoil spring twice a YEAR, if that. This kind of behavior leads to customers calling up their gunsmith and complaining about how terrible the gun is running, when in fact it's their own doing by neglecting the mechanical aspect of the gun & associated springs.

So many gunsmiths will tell people to use a little heavier spring than what is possible, only when extreme care is taken to ensure the gun is not undersprung, feeds reliably, and is changed regularly.

That makes perfect sense, I talked to Matt and I'm going to try the 7lb, not at a match of course! I will keep you guys updated on what I find out.