2013 USPSA Handgun Rules?

[remoandiris]

Yep, and when I pull out my rulebook with the changes inserted, they'll see.

There are all sorts of reason to bitch and moan about the new rulebook taking forever to get published. All those complaints don't help at match time. Either use what is available or don't.

[rgkeller]

It is usually possible for responsible members to overcome the failings of the leadership.

That is, of course, not the optimum path.

[ima45dv8]

The paid staff doesn't have much to do with it.....

The BOD is in charge of approving rules changes. Generally they appear to consider it prudent to review the rules prior to publishing a new rulebook. That's a bit of work -- and they are volunteers. There aren't legions of them -- and there's even fewer legions on the rules sub-committee....

The paid staff has everything to do with it. The paid staff is responsible for producing a product that is accessable and relevant (a.k.a., current). Whatever volunteer or part-time resources are tapped to accomplish that goal doesn't negate the responsibility.

[ima45dv8]

So when I go to work a match, I need to bring the following:

Latest rulebook

Printout of rulings from USPSA web site

Printout of USPSA BOD minutes

All back issues of Front Sight magazine.

Yeah, no problem at all.

That is plain ridiculous. You've never heard of pen-and-ink-changes? You never heard of page changes? Unless you have some sort of strange affinity to old Front Sight mags, it is very easy to cut out the changes. It is not hard to brush up on said changes enroute to a match.

It's not only about familiarizing ourselves with the current rule set, including changes listed in multiple "holding pens". It's also about being able to clearly demonstrate to a competitor the validity of a rule or penalty or DQ that just landed on them at a match.

If you think a protest wouldn't occur over 'penciled-in' changes, think again.

[remoandiris]

So when I go to work a match, I need to bring the following:

Latest rulebook

Printout of rulings from USPSA web site

Printout of USPSA BOD minutes

All back issues of Front Sight magazine.

Yeah, no problem at all.

That is plain ridiculous. You've never heard of pen-and-ink-changes? You never heard of page changes? Unless you have some sort of strange affinity to old Front Sight mags, it is very easy to cut out the changes. It is not hard to brush up on said changes enroute to a match.

It's not only about familiarizing ourselves with the current rule set, including changes listed in multiple "holding pens". It's also about being able to clearly demonstrate to a competitor the validity of a rule or penalty or DQ that just landed on them at a match.

If you think a protest wouldn't occur over 'penciled-in' changes, think again.

Are you somehow implying rules changes posted on the USPSA site or in FS are NOT valid? What if I pull out my smartphone and go to the USPSA site before writing the rule on the scoresheet? The mode in which rules are referred to and annotated is not the issue, the validity of the rules is.

[sperman]

No one is arguing the validity of the rules. What we have now requires a bit of work from the match staff before the match, and potentially additional work during the match.

Let's say a production shooter shows up with a magnet on his belt. He's still going to get bumped to open, but instead of being able to open the rulebook and point out the violation, we now have to find the copy of the BOD minutes and show him where the rule changed. His reply is going to be something along the lines of "I read the rulebook and didn't see anything. I even checked the NROI rulings and nothing was listed there." Now we have to have a discussion about why the minutes from the BOD meeting are what is being used to ruin his match.

There may be some people in this thread forming a lynch mob and coming after the BOD. I am not one of them, and I'm pretty sure that is true of Mark as well. I am saying that it would be helpful if a new rulebook were published sooner rather than later.

I will say I'm disappointed at how the new rules have been presented to the membership. These rules were voted on in December of 2011, and went into effect 4+ months ago. In that time, it seems like there was a better way to make the rules official than the BOD minutes and publishing them in Front Sight.

[ima45dv8]

So when I go to work a match, I need to bring the following:

Latest rulebook

Printout of rulings from USPSA web site

Printout of USPSA BOD minutes

All back issues of Front Sight magazine.

Yeah, no problem at all.

That is plain ridiculous. You've never heard of pen-and-ink-changes? You never heard of page changes? Unless you have some sort of strange affinity to old Front Sight mags, it is very easy to cut out the changes. It is not hard to brush up on said changes enroute to a match.

It's not only about familiarizing ourselves with the current rule set, including changes listed in multiple "holding pens". It's also about being able to clearly demonstrate to a competitor the validity of a rule or penalty or DQ that just landed on them at a match.

If you think a protest wouldn't occur over 'penciled-in' changes, think again.

Are you somehow implying rules changes posted on the USPSA site or in FS are NOT valid? What if I pull out my smartphone and go to the USPSA site before writing the rule on the scoresheet? The mode in which rules are referred to and annotated is not the issue, the validity of the rules is.

I implied nothing of the sort.

I go to many ranges that don't have cell coverage, and many ROs don't have the multiple reference locations downloaded to a portable electronic device (I'm one of them). That raises the issue of knowing, and proving which rule, ruling, DNROI opinion or BoD decision to cite.

As a competitor, I will trust, but verify a rule imposed on me. As a match official, I have to be fully prepared to be challenged in that same way. I simply want the tools to do the job right.

[remoandiris]

So when I go to work a match, I need to bring the following:

Latest rulebook

Printout of rulings from USPSA web site

Printout of USPSA BOD minutes

All back issues of Front Sight magazine.

Yeah, no problem at all.

That is plain ridiculous. You've never heard of pen-and-ink-changes? You never heard of page changes? Unless you have some sort of strange affinity to old Front Sight mags, it is very easy to cut out the changes. It is not hard to brush up on said changes enroute to a match.

It's not only about familiarizing ourselves with the current rule set, including changes listed in multiple "holding pens". It's also about being able to clearly demonstrate to a competitor the validity of a rule or penalty or DQ that just landed on them at a match.

If you think a protest wouldn't occur over 'penciled-in' changes, think again.

Are you somehow implying rules changes posted on the USPSA site or in FS are NOT valid? What if I pull out my smartphone and go to the USPSA site before writing the rule on the scoresheet? The mode in which rules are referred to and annotated is not the issue, the validity of the rules is.

I implied nothing of the sort.

I go to many ranges that don't have cell coverage, and many ROs don't have the multiple reference locations downloaded to a portable electronic device (I'm one of them). That raises the issue of knowing, and proving which rule, ruling, DNROI opinion or BoD decision to cite.

As a competitor, I will trust, but verify a rule imposed on me. As a match official, I have to be fully prepared to be challenged in that same way. I simply want the tools to do the job right.

O.k., I fully understand what you and sperman are saying and I agree with both of you. But unless there is a method to force the home office's hand, there is no use complaining.

[gng4life]

No one is arguing the validity of the rules. What we have now requires a bit of work from the match staff before the match, and potentially additional work during the match.

Let's say a production shooter shows up with a magnet on his belt. He's still going to get bumped to open, but instead of being able to open the rulebook and point out the violation, we now have to find the copy of the BOD minutes and show him where the rule changed. His reply is going to be something along the lines of "I read the rulebook and didn't see anything. I even checked the NROI rulings and nothing was listed there." Now we have to have a discussion about why the minutes from the BOD meeting are what is being used to ruin his match.

There may be some people in this thread forming a lynch mob and coming after the BOD. I am not one of them, and I'm pretty sure that is true of Mark as well. I am saying that it would be helpful if a new rulebook were published sooner rather than later.

I will say I'm disappointed at how the new rules have been presented to the membership. These rules were voted on in December of 2011, and went into effect 4+ months ago. In that time, it seems like there was a better way to make the rules official than the BOD minutes and publishing them in Front Sight.

+1...this has got to be the best post of this entire thread, except for the one about the kilt

[outerlimits]

Can't believe some mod hasn't pulled the old " this is a uspsa rules discussion. There is a forum for that on the uspsa web site", then closes the discussion. Yer slacking', flex.

[38SuperDub]

FYI - if you haven't read the BOD agenda on the USPSA website - the rules are the first thing mentioned on the agenda. So I would not expect anything before then.

[MarkCO]

While it is probably splitting hairs, do be careful writing your WSBs. I have seen some use "Published USPSA Rulebook" some "Current USPSA Rules" and others actually use the title of the rulebook. There are some people who seem to get as much enjoyment out of arguing rules as shooting, so better to be specific than create a potential conflict. I tend to revert to "Current USPSA Handgun Competition Rules" when referencing the rules in the WSB.