Patterning and chokes for 3 gun

[ambluemax]

In following some useful advice I've picked up along the way, I went to the range one day to do some homework on how my gun patterned at different ranges. Once I started looking at patterns I realized I didn't really know what kind of pattern I needed to neutralize the various targets we see in 3 gun. I figured a dense soccerball size pattern was what I needed, made some notes and called it a day.

Not satisfied though, I came back on a different day and drug out some mini poppers (the only size available to me for practice). I set one out every 5 yards from 15 to 50 yards and went about testing my chokes like Rob Romero demonstrates in the "3gun Outlaw" DVD. I was suprised to see poppers falling at 40-50 yards (using fed pink-ribbon light target 7.5's) with minimal pellet strikes...maybe 10 very scattered hits. They wouldn't fall with authority, but they fell. This exercise raised more questions than it answered. How much of a pattern does one need was still up in the air, but also how does one judge the combination of distance and set weight when trying to decide on a choke during stage planning?

What are some of you more advanced shooters looking for at the patterning board and how do you practically apply that to a stage plan? Is there really anything you can't do with a Skeet, light mod, and IM choke or are there distinct reasons to have every choke size with you? My expirence on the local circut has settled me into shooting a light mod or mod as a default, something like an IC or a skeet when I'm looking for a double and a full doesn't seem to do anything IM won't do...at least that's my limited milage in a couple seasons playing the game.

Thoughts?

[Shokr21]

I will be watching this thread, as I'm very interested in the responses it could yield.

[Kyle O]

All chokes are useful.

I've had to use a full choke on a falling steel plate at 10 yards, because there was a non shoot penalty target a few inches away.

Same thing on an MGM Spinner target, full choke, high brass number 6 shot.

On the converse, if you are breaking clays only at 10 yards, or flying birds only, then use a cylinder/diffuser whatever choke.

If there is heavy steel, you may need to use a tighter pattern to get all of the shot on target to assure a fall.

Sometimes you have to pick an inbetween, like if there are clays, and heavyish steel, then maybe a mod choke.

Each stage is different. Dress for the occasion.

[ambluemax]

Is there anything beyond a gut feel? When you actually pattern on paper and study the targets what kind of useful nuggets are people looking for?

Maybe this is my mileage but I didn't see enough difference between say a cyl and ic at very short range or between an IM and full inside of 35 yards for example. The difference seemed so slight I can figure a situation where one would be the obvious choice over the other.

Edited January 11, 2013 by ambluemax

[Shokr21]

My brother shoots trap for the U of IA and I asked him how he patterned his shotgun (franchi instinct). He told me ideally a 30 inch spread at 20 yards in a minimum and 36 inch at max. Now that's for flying clays.

What's the consensus for 3 gun? What spread at what distance? or is it simply know that choke x provides y spread at z distance and pick the choke that will serve best for each stage?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Shokr21

[EkuJustice]

I think a little tighter is needed for steel than for Clays. I just use a modified and run with it as u would rather have too much choke than not enough

[kurtm]

I agree with Ambluemax, just throw a dart at the choke board and go with whatever. I think the best choke is just having something in the gun to protect the threads inside the barrel.

[kurtm]

I agree with Ambluemax, just throw a dart at the choke board and go with whatever. I think the best choke is just having something in the gun to protect the threads inside the barrel.

[MarkCO]

Will you hold the choke board while I throw my dart?

It has a much to do with the MD/RM and the targets they use as anything. A well designed match might offer a slight benefit with a tighter or looser choke here and there, and maybe a specialty load, but in general, #8 with C or IC will be good. There are some matches where I take the kitchen sink. Generally, 1/3 of the pattern is a good suggestion for poppers, 1/6 for plates, 1% for clays.

[WFB]

I have shot the last 6 outlaw matches with #7.5 and an IC choke. I have needed a light mod for some tight shots and harder Steel but for the most part I have tried to keep it as simple as possible.

[Flatland Shooter]

Will you hold the choke board while I throw my dart?

Generally, 1/3 of the pattern is a good suggestion for poppers, 1/6 for plates, 1% for clays.

Finally, something in terms I can understand. Now I can pattern my chokes and the results will be meaningful.

Thanks Mark.

Bill

[Shokr21]

Agreed Flatland.

Mark thanks for quantifying the shot spread.

[MarkCO]

You are most welcome.

Here is another point to consider.

Mod choke with Winchester Universal, 10 yards gave a 6" pattern, 25 yards gave a 14" pattern. Skeet choke at 10 yards gave a 12" pattern and 25 yards gave a 29" pattern. (different guns and loads will have variations, this is just a representative set of patterns).

So if I am shooting a popper, or 5" plate or 3" clay, what is the acceptable sight picture for those targets with the various distances/chokes/loads? How does your "style" and skill level factor into that acceptable sight picture? Will a tighter or looser choke increase my speed or hit percentage?

I know that a top shooter I respect a lot is working on a piece related to chokes and such, and I am looking forward to reading it. Word of caution...This can be over analyzed! Several top shooters run C or IC with #8s for almost everything and they focus on the shooting, not the choke issue. Anything that complicates the stage with no real benefit is a distraction we don't need.

Edited January 11, 2013 by MarkCO

[Shokr21]

Think I'll be hanging around the range tomorrow after my USPSA match to pattern my 3 chokes to see what happens at different distances.

Just bought the thing monday, tube extension should arrive today and I already have a case of #8's to put to use.

USPSA in the snow then pattern a shotgun, sounds like a good day.

[Kyle O]

Maybe I over answered the question, I just thought of some examples when I did switch out chokes.

My mod lives in my shotgun, any others just visit now and then.

[Boxer1]

I run IC most of the time but do agree with the LM and IM are usefull.

[ambluemax]

How about this: if we split the spectrum of chokes into 3 groups- spreader chokes (dif, cyl, skt,) default chokes (ic, lm, m) and tight chokes ( im, f, exf)...has anyone found a pattern or match condition where a choke within a group was an advantage or disadvantage over another? If you have a choke from each group, are your bases covered or has someone found a specific reason to have more?

[MarkCO]

If you are a 50% shooter or lower, and a little dependent on style, you can probably shoot Mod and never need, or benefit from anything else. Other than aerials, if your bead is centered on the target when you pull the trigger, a mod with #8 will take every target I saw this year except the odd ones, and then you just needed heavier loads and choke would not help enough.

[joelogic]

Before multigun, my only experience with a shotgun was shooting buckshot out of a 870. With my M2 I shoot everything with IC mostly because I have never patterned any choke with this gun and IC seems to do the job anyway.

However at the end of every match the choke is loose and using one of those cheap choke wrenches seems to violate rule #2. Is it worth it to buy knurled chokes or am I just being overly safe?

[ambluemax]

You're being overly safe...they are black and white rules in a grey world, check and double check, then do your thing. Extra chokes are handy for switching often, but if you just run one, I'd save your money.

[urikagold]

I used to shoot a lot of sporting clays and watch the evolution of choke tubes from about the mid 90's until about 2005. It would always amaze me how some shooters would carry 18 choke tubes of various sizes and change tubes on every station. Too much brain work for me. I was told a long time ago by an instructor I had that I was to change choke tubes for density of core and not for pattern size. Later on in my sporting clays career I put in a pair of Light Mods and left them. That had me covered on the long stuff and it wasn't the chokes fault if I missed an easy up close target. If you pattern your chokes on a grease board at different yardages you will see that there are a lot of holes in the patterns. This may not apply for 3 gun as much as it does for sporting clays, trap, and skeet, but it does matter. I carry IC and Mod in my bag. Using Ambluemax's spectrum description it should probably be IC and Full. The constriction difference between IC and Mod is probably not big enough to notice over the yardages that we shoot in 3 gun. The IC stays in my Versamax 90% of the time because my slugs pattern better with it. I just up my birdshot load if there is some long steel or clays. I shoot mostly 1 oz #7 1/2. I also carry some 1 1/8 #7 1/2's and a box of high brass #4 for the occasional pesky spinner if that round is allowed. I also carry a box of Fiocchi Spreader shells. They throw a crazy big pattern at short distance through my IC choke. Some of you may remember the 1x2 door breech stick at Rockcastle Pro Am 2012. Ideal for that situation. To date I have used one of the high brass #4's and 3 of the spreaders. But I have them.

]

Edited January 23, 2013 by urikagold

[EkuJustice]

That furring strip was so close it wouldn't have have mattered what choke or shell you had in the gun it would have still come out super tight

[j28s]

OK. After reading all the threads, is it fair to say you need 2 to 3 chokes. 2 would be IC and Full, if you want 3 it would be Skeet, IC and Full. And the primary choke that would stay in the fun is an IC. Lastly, no slug in a Full...right?

[MarkCO]

Got to be 3, still think LM is the best all-around choice.

Skeet and Mod for 2. Skeet, lm and full for 3.

[j28s]

Thanks for the info. That helps.