How do you learn to "mash the gas"?

[Shadowrider]

I've read the pinned thread "Revolver Specific Skills" over and over. Some good info there for sure. I'm finally getting to where I can hit pretty tight shots with the revo. I can hit most any shot that presents itself on a USPSA field course. But I can't do it with any speed! Every time I shoot what I think is a somewhat decent classifier (which isn't often, I suck at classifiers) I beat feet to CM Calc only to find that it's a D class score. I shot what appears to be a decent score (for me) on the classifier at Memphis this year. I finished this stage at 31st place overall. Hit factor is a solid "D". For more info, at Memphis this year I shot a 94.31% of the points for actual shots taken and 84.31% when you add in my penalties. (this is for the whole match)

I fully understand about how all the little things like smooth reloads, a good consistent grip, and footwork add up over a match. Those things I know how to fix. My biggest issue by far is sight alignment relating to followup shots (splits) and transitioning between targets. Every time I start to step it up, mikes and no-shoots abound. I have a 10 shot Model 17 with an absolutely horrid trigger that I bought to practice with, since loading even lead bullet .45 loads gets kind of pricey. What drills do you recommend for getting the speed up with out dropping off on accuracy that I could do on an indoor range with paper targets? I figure if I can get proficient with this Model 17, my very nice, tuned and tricked 5" 625 ought to be "easy".

[toothguy]

Keep working to increase your grip strength. If your having trouble shooting it's the fundamentals, and it's usually trigger control, worked out with dry fire. Get a trigger job on the 617, you can't get it as light but you can get it smooth. With the revolver dry fire is everything except the bang, so practice what you suck at. Do transition dry fire drills then practice with the .22, you will improve.

Edited December 2, 2012 by toothguy

[Matt Griffin]

I've read the pinned thread "Revolver Specific Skills" over and over. Some good info there for sure. I'm finally getting to where I can hit pretty tight shots with the revo. I can hit most any shot that presents itself on a USPSA field course. But I can't do it with any speed! Every time I shoot what I think is a somewhat decent classifier (which isn't often, I suck at classifiers) I beat feet to CM Calc only to find that it's a D class score. I shot what appears to be a decent score (for me) on the classifier at Memphis this year. I finished this stage at 31st place overall. Hit factor is a solid "D". For more info, at Memphis this year I shot a 94.31% of the points for actual shots taken and 84.31% when you add in my penalties. (this is for the whole match)

I fully understand about how all the little things like smooth reloads, a good consistent grip, and footwork add up over a match. Those things I know how to fix. My biggest issue by far is sight alignment relating to followup shots (splits) and transitioning between targets. Every time I start to step it up, mikes and no-shoots abound. I have a 10 shot Model 17 with an absolutely horrid trigger that I bought to practice with, since loading even lead bullet .45 loads gets kind of pricey. What drills do you recommend for getting the speed up with out dropping off on accuracy that I could do on an indoor range with paper targets? I figure if I can get proficient with this Model 17, my very nice, tuned and tricked 5" 625 ought to be "easy".

You're probably looking too hard. Go to the range and do this: Put in a single round in your clip, set the gun to click five times before firing. You need to do this from a draw or table start. Put a target at 7 yards or whatever you feel is "can't miss" and run the gun at the target as fast as you can. The object is to see how the sights move because of YOU, not the recoil. Chances are by the time you hit that sixth click (boom!) you'll have settled the pattern down.

For general improvement related to speed, I would point my finger at two things: waiting too long for a perfect sight picture before starting the pull (see above) or way too much tension in the strong hand locking up the trigger finger. Hit the range and try the click drill and report back, we can go from there. Be sure and note what you see during the drill and we can discuss what others see afterwards.

[Shadowrider]

You're probably looking too hard. Go to the range and do this: Put in a single round in your clip, set the gun to click five times before firing. You need to do this from a draw or table start. Put a target at 7 yards or whatever you feel is "can't miss" and run the gun at the target as fast as you can. The object is to see how the sights move because of YOU, not the recoil. Chances are by the time you hit that sixth click (boom!) you'll have settled the pattern down.

For general improvement related to speed, I would point my finger at two things: waiting too long for a perfect sight picture before starting the pull (see above) or way too much tension in the strong hand locking up the trigger finger. Hit the range and try the click drill and report back, we can go from there. Be sure and note what you see during the drill and we can discuss what others see afterwards.

Mucho thanks for your time! I'll try to get this done Monday or Tuesday. To clarify, I'm looking to see what the front sight is doing specifically in it's movement? For instance "a little up and down with a slight left to right"? I'm pretty certain it will have settled in close to the aiming point before #6. I see some of this in dryfire practice. But I'll do this test this week.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Shadowrider

[Bubber]

Good info from Matt and tooth. Sometimes you have to push it over the edge just to see where the edge is. " As Vic P used to say, You can't live on the edge if you don't know where it is." Also trigger speed will only get you so far. It is all the other stuff we have to do that slows us down. Like getting a smooth plan and hitting your spots. You saw some of that yesterday at the OKC match, especially when I missed one spot and stumbled through until I got back on track. And only seeing what you need to see in the moment. Or Target focus depending on your skill set getting the acceptable sight picture that is needed. Chris C. and I were dicussing your improvement on the way back yesterday from the match. Later Rider, rdd.

[Matt Griffin]

You're probably looking too hard. Go to the range and do this: Put in a single round in your clip, set the gun to click five times before firing. You need to do this from a draw or table start. Put a target at 7 yards or whatever you feel is "can't miss" and run the gun at the target as fast as you can. The object is to see how the sights move because of YOU, not the recoil. Chances are by the time you hit that sixth click (boom!) you'll have settled the pattern down.

For general improvement related to speed, I would point my finger at two things: waiting too long for a perfect sight picture before starting the pull (see above) or way too much tension in the strong hand locking up the trigger finger. Hit the range and try the click drill and report back, we can go from there. Be sure and note what you see during the drill and we can discuss what others see afterwards.

Mucho thanks for your time! I'll try to get this done Monday or Tuesday. To clarify, I'm looking to see what the front sight is doing specifically in it's movement? For instance "a little up and down with a slight left to right"? I'm pretty certain it will have settled in close to the aiming point before #6. I see some of this in dryfire practice. But I'll do this test this week.

I expect it's going to bounce all over the place. A max-speed trigger pull on a revolver is a disturbing thing. When I work on this I can usually get it where the fiber stays in the rear sight, that's what you're hoping to get to. If the fiber is in the rear sight you're going to hit the A out to seven yards or so, but you might be surprised just how taxing those five clicks are to your concentration, stamina, and gun/target position.

[M1911]

Always keep the trigger moving. With a semi-auto, I can transition to a target and then start pulling. But with a revolver, I start pulling the trigger during the transition.

[toothguy]

Always keep the trigger moving. With a semi-auto, I can transition to a target and then start pulling. But with a revolver, I start pulling the trigger during the transition.

+1, Jerry Miculek talks about this at length in "Ultimate Advanced Revolver". The revolver shooter is on a time schedule and the cylinder needs to be moving so you aren't waiting on the gun. Obviously he is a great shooter but he really is an efficiency expert. If it doesn't add to the performance he doesn't do it.

Edited December 3, 2012 by toothguy

[pittmanj22]

This is great stuff guys. I'm going to have to try the empty cylinders to a load on the last shot to check how much I'm moving during pull.

[Jaxshooter]

Not a good idea to dry fire a rimfire revolver. You are goung to damage the cylinder. Use dummy rounds.

[bikerburgess]

Always keep the trigger moving. With a semi-auto, I can transition to a target and then start pulling. But with a revolver, I start pulling the trigger during the transition.

+1 the biggest gain in speed I found (and I'm not that fast) was starting the trigger pull before I get the sights on the target. It really showed up on steel challenge matches with my 617

Mike

Edited December 4, 2012 by bikerburgess

[Shadowrider]

Okay I did the 1 shot moon test. Discovered one thing which I knew was a problem, but seeing it in the sight picture is kind of enlightening. I did 10 runs with this. The first two runs took out most of the letter A on the target. So I figured I must not be running it hard enough, so I stepped it up a notch on my 3rd run. Pulled the shot lower than the others but was still in the A zone. I have found in doing this that getting "a bit lazy" with the support hand hurts you worse than I had realized. So I paid more attention to my grip for the rest of the runs and the below target shows my results. This was shot at 7'ish yards.

Matt, you were exactly right, the first couple of empty clicks have the sights running around the place. But as long as I really concentrate on my grip I can keep the front sight somewhere in the notch. But it's moving for sure. Edit to add: I forgot my timer, but it won't pick up splits on dryfire anyway unless it's right beside the gun. I'm sure they wouldn't impress anyone, but It would be kind of interesting to know what they are.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Shadowrider

[toothguy]

Looks great!

[daves_not_here]

Looks like you're ready to turn on the gas. Try the drill with rounds in cylinder 1 and 6 with a timer to get an idea of your splits. You'll also save ammo and your wrists.

Then try el presidente. I'd like to hear what you have for transitions. Transitions can be a real time sink.

DNH

[toothguy]

If you can find a plate rack to use try shooting the outer plates and work inward 1-6,2-5,3-4, fun transition work.

That's good shooting on the paper. It's low which is right for 7 yrds and your not jerking the trigger or your shots would be low left.

Edited December 6, 2012 by toothguy

[Matt Griffin]

Excellent! Now you know what you want to see, it's time to do some full moons, or even some click-click-bang-click-click-bang moons. If you can get the sight returning after recoil and staying in the notch then you know you can run that fast or faster. I wouldn't try going crazy yet, right now is the time to convince yourself that fast isn't necessarily out of control. I usually push until the group gets as wide as the A zone or I simply run out of trigger finger speed.

When you start working with full moons I'll be interested to hear the results. There's a sneaky trick I found that can really help when you're going all out.

[seanc]

Excellent! Now you know what you want to see, it's time to do some full moons, or even some click-click-bang-click-click-bang moons. If you can get the sight returning after recoil and staying in the notch then you know you can run that fast or faster. I wouldn't try going crazy yet, right now is the time to convince yourself that fast isn't necessarily out of control. I usually push until the group gets as wide as the A zone or I simply run out of trigger finger speed.

When you start working with full moons I'll be interested to hear the results. There's a sneaky trick I found that can really help when you're going all out.

I love sneaky tricks, please share!

[Toolguy]

I would aim more for the middle of the A zone rather than the A. Shooting there, if you pull down a little you'll have a C or 2.

Whatever you practice is what you'll do in a match.

Edited December 7, 2012 by Toolguy

[Carmoney]

I would aim more for the middle of the A zone rather than the A. Shooting there, if you pull down a little you'll have a C or 2.

Whatever you practice is what you'll do in a match.

C'mon Warren, that's slow ol' Bianchi Cup stuff you're talkin'.

The dude is trying to learn how to mash the gas! ;-)

[Toolguy]

Silly me! What was I thinking??? Why shoot towards the middle in some other game?

[Bubber]

You would be suprised of how a simple black dot on a target will seem to center the hits with out conciensely trying to aim at the center, And if you take it a step farther you could decorate your room with IPSC targets with a black dot in the center of the A zone and just look at them when you walk by them. Hmmm? later rdd

[toothguy]

Some nice shooting here, some fast splits on the close targets but looks like they are concentrating on making good hits. Edited December 7, 2012 by toothguy

[seanc]

Some nice shooting here, some fast splits on the close targets but looks like they are concentrating on making good hits.

It's time + penalties, so if not shooting only A's, you are loosing.

And yeah, given that a couple of those guys are gm's it is very fine shooting to say the least.

Edited December 7, 2012 by seanc

[toothguy]

It's so smooth, those transitions on steel, the cylinder stays in motion. Looks effortless.

And crap that draw is fast.

Edited December 7, 2012 by toothguy

[pskys2]

We still need to shoot for the middle of the target area, it's just in IPSC at speed you don't want to wait and refine the sight picture and the follow through is way shortened. And mashing the gas is more of don't slow down thing than a speed it up thing.

Even though Jerry can shoot A's at warp speed, he will still throw a miss, even at closer targets. Unlike the other Divisions, Revo's can't throw a make up shot and we just have to learn to live with it.

Matt what's that "secret" you alluded to? You can PM me if you don't want Jerry to know, I'll not tell!

Edited December 9, 2012 by pskys2