DaveTimm Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Cool, thanks for the info Mark. The more I talk to you the more I learn. Your knowledge and insight is always appreciated. I'm not ready to throw away my slip oil yet but the more I learn the more I think motor oil may be the better choice especially economically speaking. Mark, in your research and experience is there any down sides to using say royal purple versus a made fun oil. I keep hearing things about additives, solvents etc. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 What about Mil-comm TW-25? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 If you are using a current API rated oil, synthetic or asphalt based, there are no worries. Yes, motoroils have additive packages. Those additive packages include sacrificial compounds to maintain pH, prevent foaming, maintain surface tension etc. Since we use steel, bronze, aluminum and polymers in modern engines, they are darn close to what we use in firearms. I ran all sorts of tests on gunoils with equipment that was state of the art...motoroils, especially the premium ones, were superior almost universally, to gunoils. Gunoils typically had lower flashpoints and the wear on the plates after 1M cycles was pretty telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmysterious Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 So 5W-30 would work well, right? http://www.jegs.com/i/Royal-Purple/831/01021/10002/-1?parentProductId=745605 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) If you are using a current API rated oil, synthetic or asphalt based, there are no worries. Yes, motoroils have additive packages. Those additive packages include sacrificial compounds to maintain pH, prevent foaming, maintain surface tension etc. Since we use steel, bronze, aluminum and polymers in modern engines, they are darn close to what we use in firearms. I ran all sorts of tests on gunoils with equipment that was state of the art...motoroils, especially the premium ones, were superior almost universally, to gunoils. Gunoils typically had lower flashpoints and the wear on the plates after 1M cycles was pretty telling. It was the wear tests that convinced me to use motor oils also. There is a huge disparity in different oils ability to help metals resist wear. If I remember correctly, gun oils generally were better at preventing corrosion than most motor oils, but since corrosion isn't a big problem in AR's I didn't figure it mattered much. Edited December 2, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1778 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I'm very glad when we have these informative threads going. Just a thank you to everyone contributing their deep experience and good questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 What about Mil-comm TW-25? Good stuff, but not better than synthetic motoroil. It does cost a LOT more. I probably have like $200 worth of new bottles of gunoils on my bench, maybe 2 quarts worth...or $12 worth of synthetic motoroil. Bob, re RP 5w30...if you are going to order it, just get a quart of the 30 weight. I'll bet you have a speed shop within 10 miles of you that carries RP though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpom Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Mark, curious as to your thoughts about Frog Lube. I like the idea that it's non toxic and it seems to clean up easily without allowing carbon to stick too badly to the bolt tail. Is it lacking in pure lubrication or does it have other issues compared to your more favored choices? Thanks, Mark P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 What about Mil-comm TW-25? Good stuff, but not better than synthetic motoroil. It does cost a LOT more. I probably have like $200 worth of new bottles of gunoils on my bench, maybe 2 quarts worth...or $12 worth of synthetic motoroil. Bob, re RP 5w30...if you are going to order it, just get a quart of the 30 weight. I'll bet you have a speed shop within 10 miles of you that carries RP though. thanx Mark. i had a tub of the TW 25, but i will look for some RP 30w. my slip 2000 is almost gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 W.R.T. Froglube, I think I will just leave it at...tried it, tested it in accordance with SAE and STLE protocols, and I don't use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Mark, do you have any experience with Royal Purple Max-Chain Synthetic Lubricant ? This looked like an interesting product to use in an AR also. Tar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Mark, do you have any experience with Royal Purple Max-Chain Synthetic Lubricant ? This looked like an interesting product to use in an AR also. Tar. No, but it lacks the additive package of motoroils, which we want for firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perforator Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Dang it! Oils have ONE viscosity for a given temperature, period. The rate of change due to temperature can be altered, but with a trade off. If it is 0F or 100F, the viscosity is determined by operating temperature of the oil. For our purposes, you can add the two numbers and multiply by .4 for an effective viscoity. Oils with wide ranges, 0w40 for instance, have shorter molecular chains and are not as good at suspension as a straight weight oil. With synthetics, the rating is an approximation, but they have longer chains and thus suspend better in general. Straight weight oils have longer chains and thus suspend better as well. An 0w40, at engine operating temps tests out at about a 30 weight oil. A 10w30 tests out at about a 25 weight oil. A 20w50 tests out at about a 40 weight oil. At room temp, they are usually about 5 points above the rating. While Mobil 1 is a good oil, Royal Purple makes straight weight racing oils that are better for firearms. A good synthetic grease will suspend a higher volume of particulates than an equal amount of syhthetic oil. I use slide Glide on the bolt carrier rails, slide rails and cam pin and oil everywhere else. Yes, I worked in an oil testing lab for 3 years and yes I did graduate level course and research work in Tribology. Yes, I tried Froglube, no I don't use it. Yes, Pennzoil and Quaker State are crappy oils. I've read 11,701 threads on lubes and this is the first one that made sense. I've been a fan of Slide-Glide for a long time and now I have an actual scientific reason. For oil, the only thing I don't like about Mobil1 is the way it migrates if you get too much in your bolt. The next day it looks like it was applied to the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Perforator, try 30 weight RP. Seems to not migrate as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowrider Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 MarkCO, Which froglube did you test? Liquid or paste? Also what test did you do? Falex? Your homebrew mix sounds like a good one for guns. Just out of curiosity, what does ATF bring to the table that synthetic oil by itself doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 My mechanic recommended to me Shaeffer's synthetic oil. Says it has higher lubricity and much higher temp ratings than Mobil 1. Anyone tried any Shaeffer's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 MarkCO, Which froglube did you test? Liquid or paste? Also what test did you do? Falex? Your homebrew mix sounds like a good one for guns. Just out of curiosity, what does ATF bring to the table that synthetic oil by itself doesn't? I hope you won't take offense if I only answer your last question. ATF adds three things, It prevents aeration better, it prevents deposit build-up on metal better and the conditioners are good for things like o-rings and seals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepswithdogs Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Mark, what throws me about adding ATF to the mixture is that if you put oil in an auto trans in stead of ATF, I believe the discs would slip so much the car wouldn't move. So, it seems there is some property/additive or lack there of, in ATF that allows for friction, which it seems to me, would only degrade the anti-wear properties of synthetic motor oil. Tar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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