Resizer with Dillon 1200 trimmer

[Artsville]

Hey guys,

I am about to start doing 223 brass prep. I have a 650 and thinking about doing the dual tool head setup. I have seen some people resize with the trimmer and others resize then use the trimmer on the next station. What is everyone doing? What are the benefits of either method?

Let me hear what the experts are doing!

thanks

Art

[PKT1106]

When I had my 1200, I would use a dedicated toolhead on my 550 with a full-length sizing die in S1 and the trimmer/trim die in S3. The trim die does not have an expander ball, so if you had a case mouth dent in, you would have to resize anyway before trimming the case.

When I was ready to load, I would have a universal decapper in S1 to make sure the flash hole was clear, then power in S2, Bullet in S3 and crimp in S4 (if you want a crimp)

[shopgun]

On my 650 my method it to size and trim using the trim die only. I then tumble clean and remove the case lube from the cases. Since the cases are already sized and trimmed to length the only remaining step is to deprime and expand the case mouths which can be done as you are actually reloading. I do this by running up the size die so it does not contact the case at all and running the expander/decap rod down far enough to do that. Before I adopted this method I had the problem of case lubed cases transferring lube to the powder funnel which would trap powder grains against the shoulder of the funnel that prevented a good seal of the case mouth to the powder funnel shoulder . This allowed powder grains to escape the case which obviously isn't the way to a consistent powder charge. Since you are now loading a case lube free case, my current method insures a consistent powder drop.

[Retread1911]

I process 223 on a 1050 with a standard steel size Deprime die in station 1

Swage in station 2

Somewhere around station 5 I have the dillon 1200 trimmer with the size die

I have found that the multiple size stations combines with good lube produces a more consistent trim.

What are you doing for swaging?

[Artsville]

I process 223 on a 1050 with a standard steel size Deprime die in station 1

Swage in station 2

Somewhere around station 5 I have the dillon 1200 trimmer with the size die

I have found that the multiple size stations combines with good lube produces a more consistent trim.

What are you doing for swaging?

i have the dillon swager. In the past i have just been sending my brass out to be sized and trimmed or buying ready to load brass. I now have 2k brass waiting to be resized/trimmed. I told myself around 2-3k of brass i would start resizing and trimming.

[PKT1106]

On my 650 my method it to size and trim using the trim die only. I then tumble clean and remove the case lube from the cases. Since the cases are already sized and trimmed to length the only remaining step is to deprime and expand the case mouths which can be done as you are actually reloading.

The only problem I can see with this method is if the case mouth is dented in alot. The trim die won't expand it back out and if there is a bigger dent, the expander will push it back out and the case mouth *MAY* not be uniform all the way around. Have you had any issues like that?

[RiggerJJ]

I decap resize & expand, swage, then trim on 1st head. (3 dies, Dillon FL carbid, swager, and trimmer)

then tumble to remove lube.

2nd head;

clear primer pocket with univ-decapper

bell case mouth

prime

powder

bullet seat

crimp

I run LOTS of 223 and 308 this way for 3gun. 5-10k each in a year. its the quickest and most efficient that I have found. I get ammo that chambers, fires, is very accurate, and I don't spend a lot of time or effort doing it. I am not interested in pencil sharpeners for trimmers, way too much brass handling, and it hurts my hands. I don't de-burr or chamfer, proved to myself it was a waste of time by actually testing it on the range. I just tumble clean the brass, run it thru the processing head, tumble it again, and then load it with the 2nd head.

of course there are going to be lots of different ways to do it, but as long as you end up with ammo that suits your wishes, thats the most important.

jj

[shopgun]

On my 650 my method it to size and trim using the trim die only. I then tumble clean and remove the case lube from the cases. Since the cases are already sized and trimmed to length the only remaining step is to deprime and expand the case mouths which can be done as you are actually reloading.

The only problem I can see with this method is if the case mouth is dented in alot. The trim die won't expand it back out and if there is a bigger dent, the expander will push it back out and the case mouth *MAY* not be uniform all the way around. Have you had any issues like that?

No I have not but I inspect my cases and discard any that have been stepped on and the case mouths crushed or heavily dented. I've loaded in excess of 20 K rifle rounds this way with no problems but I still case gauge every round.

[BullyDog]

I decap resize & expand, swage, then trim on 1st head. (3 dies, Dillon FL carbid, swager, and trimmer)

then tumble to remove lube.

2nd head;

clear primer pocket with univ-decapper

bell case mouth

prime

powder

bullet seat

crimp

I run LOTS of 223 and 308 this way for 3gun. 5-10k each in a year. its the quickest and most efficient that I have found. I get ammo that chambers, fires, is very accurate, and I don't spend a lot of time or effort doing it. I am not interested in pencil sharpeners for trimmers, way too much brass handling, and it hurts my hands. I don't de-burr or chamfer, proved to myself it was a waste of time by actually testing it on the range. I just tumble clean the brass, run it thru the processing head, tumble it again, and then load it with the 2nd head.

of course there are going to be lots of different ways to do it, but as long as you end up with ammo that suits your wishes, thats the most important.

jj

That is the exact same process I do, I thought it was only me that done it that way on my 1050.

[Powerslide91]

I'm a total newbie to rifle reloads, but just started setting up a dual tool head setup on my 650. First head for the brass prep is the full length re-size in #1 and the 1200 trimmer in #5. One word of warning others may already know but I did not from reading around;

since the brass gets sized in station 1, I read that the sizing die for the trimmer is left backed off so it does not try to re-size the brass a second time. The instructions with the trimmer tell you to install it till it touches the shell plate, then back off 1/2 turn. The trimmer instructions assume the trim die will do the sizing so it then tells you how to set the re-size. In my case, since that is done in station 1, I just proceeded to set the trimmer to the right length as I already had set up station 1 to resize correctly to the gage block. Turns out however, that the carbide cutter is touching the trim die when it was backed off this much.

So point is, if you use this on a 650 toolhead, make sure to check the carbide cutter is clear of the die body if you are running it backed off. Especially before you hit the power switch...

[M.E.Anglin]

First tool head I use Dillion sizing die on station #1, Trimmer on station #4 and on station #5 the RCBS small base die,

Second tool head station #1 Lyman "M" die and finish up the reloading the usual way,

Ammo comes out great. Fast and smooth process

[Cotys]

I use a Dillon full length die in #1 and the trimmer in #4. Since it has be resized in #1 including the ball expander, it is uniform going into the trimmer. I use Dillon case lube and tumble it off after this. Since it is a 650, I use a Dillon swager.

[pmclaine]

Seems to be many ways to skin a cat and this is my method on my S1050 loading 30-06.

Tool head number one

-Station 1 Dillon FL size die backed off to decap/straighten out necks and just begin sizing.

-Swage

-Station 5 Dillon RT 1200 set to trim to speciifed length and size to +.001/002 on RCBS headspace mic gauge.

I found that setting either the FL die or trim die per Dillon directions was setting my brass back to -.004 or more on the RCBS tool. Max anyone of my three guns blow the brass out to is +.005 so I decided to size less and work the brass less. Havent had any chambering issues so far.

Brass is tumbled clean of Dillon lube after it makes it through tool head number one.

Tool head number two

-Station 1 Universal decap

-Station 2 Nothing

-Station 3 Prime

-Station 4 Powder drop

-Station 5 Powder Check (Ive been setting my powder drops just low of desired grains and trickle my powder. I found this gets me better rounds for what I am doing right now)

-Station 6 Seat

-Station 7 Crimp backed off to do nothing. I let the neck tension set by the RT 1200 trim die do its thing.

Edited November 2, 2012 by pmclaine

[DickP3]

I decap resize & expand, swage, then trim on 1st head. (3 dies, Dillon FL carbid, swager, and trimmer)

then tumble to remove lube.

2nd head;

clear primer pocket with univ-decapper

bell case mouth

prime

powder

bullet seat

crimp

jj

I'm trying to setup to load 308 on my 650. This is my first rifle cartridge but I think your procedure and others similar make a lot of sense. How do you adjust the Dillon FL die and the trim die? Are they both set using the case gage? What die do you use to bell the case mouth? Something like the Lyman M die?

Dick

[RiggerJJ]

I decap resize & expand, swage, then trim on 1st head. (3 dies, Dillon FL carbid, swager, and trimmer)

then tumble to remove lube.

2nd head;

clear primer pocket with univ-decapper

bell case mouth

prime

powder

bullet seat

crimp

jj

I'm trying to setup to load 308 on my 650. This is my first rifle cartridge but I think your procedure and others similar make a lot of sense. How do you adjust the Dillon FL die and the trim die? Are they both set using the case gage? What die do you use to bell the case mouth? Something like the Lyman M die?

Dick

I set the Dillon FL carbide sizer/decapper/expander ball die to the shellplate, and tighten it there. then I set the trim die to the case guage. I bell the case mouth with the die that goes on the swager position of a 1050, it just doesn't swage the primer pocket because that comes up from the bottom.

jj

[DickP3]

I set the Dillon FL carbide sizer/decapper/expander ball die to the shellplate, and tighten it there. then I set the trim die to the case guage. I bell the case mouth with the die that goes on the swager position of a 1050, it just doesn't swage the primer pocket because that comes up from the bottom.

jj

Thanks jj. Do you think that a neck expanding die like the Lyman (M) die will do the same job as the 1050 swage backup die with the backup expander?

Dick

[RiggerJJ]

Not sure, can't help there cause I have never used one. All you need is a slight bell to not shave the bullet on seating, and you must remove it with a crimp die. Too much bell and you can ruin the neck tension you get from the trim/size die.

jj

[Boxerglocker]

How are guys belling .223 cases???

I've been loading .223 on a XL650 using the RT1200 2 tool head method foe several years and never seen a need nor a way of belling them.

I load BT bullets primarily for my ARs but even when prepping for flat base bullets for bolt gun all I do is chamfer slightly and load away.

[RiggerJJ]

How are guys belling .223 cases???

I've been loading .223 on a XL650 using the RT1200 2 tool head method foe several years and never seen a need nor a way of belling them.

I load BT bullets primarily for my ARs but even when prepping for flat base bullets for bolt gun all I do is chamfer slightly and load away.

I use the built in belling feature on the swage backup die, just set it so it just kisses the case mouth and opens it up just enough to allow ease of bullet seating. After seating I crimp it, just barely kiss it so the bell is eliminated. These two dies (beller and crimper) eliminate the need to handle all the brass individually after processing just to chamfer/debur the case mouth, which is good in my book. I just clean it, lube it, process it (including swaging on the 1050), clean the lube off, and then load it. I do not have to handle each case individually at all, just buckets full of brass at a time dumping it into the case feeder...more ammo, less time doing it, more time shooting. good!

jj

[Religious Shooter]

How are guys belling .223 cases???

I use the Lee Collet die. I set it to expand the neck (and in effect rolling out the inside burrs) and knock out any debris in the primer hole.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/215819/lee-collet-neck-sizer-die-223-remington

I used the Lyman M die with my 650. Did not like it. It was common to mush up the case mouth because it wasn't being guided through correctly. The Lee's pin can be bent to guide the case into the die.

[Boxerglocker]

I can see how the backup swage die works, I have a Super Swage 600. However I don't possibly see how the Lee collet die could even remotely considered to be belling.

I use a Lee collet die for all my Lapua formed fired brass when loading my precision bolt action .223 loads.

[Religious Shooter]

The OP's thread title references the Dillon trimmer.

The Dillon 1200's stock trimmer dies squeezes the crap out of a cases' neck.

So when you run it through the Lee collet die's decapper with it's bulb it actually expands the neck... you can feel the resistance as the bulb enters the case mouth.

I use it for .243, .308 as well as the .223. The Lee collet dies expand the neck for those cartridges that have gone through the Dillon trimmer die.

If you don't use the Dillon trimmer dies you will get varying results.

[Religious Shooter]

I just measured some .223 Win brass trimmed by my Dillon. The OD of the Dillon trimmed brass' neck measures around .242". Factory new Win measures .246-.248".

I took some of the factory new Win and hand inserted through Lee FL die. The neck went in without any resistance with the FL die.

I took the new Win factory and tried to insert it into a .223 Lee Collet die... no go. You have to force it to go over the main shaft of the decapper.

So check to see if your Lee Collet die will expand your resized brass. Mine will expand the neck of factory .223 Win brass.

[Religious Shooter]

I can see how the backup swage die works, I have a Super Swage 600. However I don't possibly see how the Lee collet die could even remotely considered to be belling.

And just to be clear... I'm not saying that the Lee dies can bell the case mouth. I'm saying it can expand the case neck.

[Boxerglocker]

I can see how the backup swage die works, I have a Super Swage 600. However I don't possibly see how the Lee collet die could even remotely considered to be belling.

And just to be clear... I'm not saying that the Lee dies can bell the case mouth. I'm saying it can expand the case neck.

OK this I can agree with. I sized form fired brass and measured the neck tension applied with my Lee collet die when new. 0.001

After research I found that the consensus on many of the precision forums was to sand and polish the mandrel down to achieve 0.002

I do use a Dillon trimmer and die for my bulk .223 processing, on average it gives 0.004-0.005 neck tension, I just umbel and load for BT bullets.

Even when I load Flat base for bulk varmint loads, as I stated earlier just a slight chamfer and no issues with the 0.004-0.005 neck tension. I have a 50g Vmax load that does well under 0.5 MOA loaded in this manner.