ErikW Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 I did a lot of ROing and AROing at two matches this weekend, with a bunch of new shooters. ShooterGrrl's hubby did the same. We both remarked at how stressful it is. It takes years off my life. I don't know what it is that makes people wave their guns around so much. I've yet to see a new shooter who can keep his finger out of the trigger guard for a whole stage. Those who can manage it while moving invariably don't when clearing jams. Speaking of jams, I hate when new shooters show up with guns that don't run for two shots in a row. OK, fine, I'll accept new shooters running a 20-second stage in 50 or 60 seconds. But with a malfunctioning gun, it takes them 90 seconds or more. It makes me want to tell them, "Throw that shit in the trash and don't come back until you've got a working gun!" The only thing worse than a new shooter's gun handling is an experienced shooter whose gun handling is just barely good enough to not get DQed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 Thats the one benefit of the program we run up here. Every shooter, before he/she can go to a match, has to pass a qualification course. It sure doesn't seem to discourage members, and when they show up at matches everyone knows they are safe (or there is no excuse) We've only ever had a couple of problem student who could not pass for one reason or another. After they pass several things are solved 1- they are safe 2- they know the rules 3- they have a certain level of competency (by the time they pass, usually they are shooting at a C class level) 4- and they know their gun works a) they had one that worked fine, and now after 500-600 rounds it is proven or they didn't but now it is fixed or they have gotten one that does work. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassy knoll Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 Pat is right, this year I took the 2 day Black Badge course that covered all the basics, then I had to shoot a qualification match without screwing up (waving the gun around) and have the Chief RO sign off on my card that I was good to go. I actually took the Black Badge course with a Norinco 1911 .45, and then realized where I wanted to go with this game and bought a Para 16-40 Ltd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted January 14, 2002 Author Share Posted January 14, 2002 Oh yeah these guys all went through the new shooter course. I guess it's just too much to absorb and they regress to bad habits when the buzzer goes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 I RO'ed a squad in November in a 3-gun match with 2 new shooters. These 2 guys had never even shot an AR or a shotgun. I really like helping new guys out but..... Very stressful day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 Erik: I don't know what your new shooter program is like but our Black Badge course is pretty thorough. 2 days and 600 rounds mostly dealing with safety stuff. we have the odd problem with somebody after the course but its rare. Grassy: where you from? Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 I agree Erik, its nerve wracking with some new shooters. The problem I have is with new competitors, rather than new shooters. Being rural Texas, many new people come to our matches with lots of shooting experience, and by and large do pretty well with a few reminders. After all, they are just not used to a formalized procedure or shooting with a bunch of people around. But occasionally there are gun wavers who think I'm stupid or hassling them when I have to remind them "Don't point your gun over the berm when reloading/unloading." " Don't run with the gun waving around", etc. Like I just won't let 'em have no fun. Oh yeah, on several occasions I've had shooters get VERY upset that I wanted them to drop the hammer on an empty chamber. That'll just ruin the firing pin ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Hey come-on gentlemen. The "newbies" need to learn too, like we did (Ok, I'm still learning). It'll just take'em some time. Remember, we don't want to scare the little fellers off..... It took me a couple times getting yelled at (with an outstanding RO by the name of S.Strabeck) to get my finger outt'a the trigger guard when clearing jams....wait a minute...I shoot a Glock, I don't have jams! It must have been for sump'm else. Steve will let you know what the hell you did wrong, and send you out the door!!...in a nice way.. You guys are to be commended for your contributions to the sport. To these "new blood", you are the doormen to the world of practical shooting, smile. I salute you compadres!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 I kind of enjoy being the RO for new shooters but we do make them walk through and we coach through. I taught high school driver education for 15 years and by comparison being an RO for a day is pretty mild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 The stories I could tell you guys that have happened to me just this past summer! Last saturday I DQed a shooter at his second match because when I yelled "muzzle", for breaking the 180, he looked back at me and pointed his gun at his foot. This shooter got pissed and said he ain't coming back. Good because with an attitude like that I'm not ROing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 We all know how stressful ROing newbies can be, but I agree with TDean, we need to be sure the experience is as pleasant as possible for these shooters so hopefully they come back again and again until they're not newbies any longer. Most of the clubs in our area have a new shooter orientation, which is nothing other than an informal safety briefing right before the match. All new shooters must attend this briefing before they are allowed to shoot. These new shooters coming to the line have already been prepped as to what is required from a safety standpoint and if they still get get tossed they can't say they weren't warned beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpy Posted January 19, 2002 Share Posted January 19, 2002 Here is some info to further expand on our Canadian program, more commonly referred to as "Black Badge". This is just to give you an idea of what our shooters MUST do before we even let them near a competition. http://www.ipscalberta.com/bb/bbtrain.htm http://www.ipscalberta.com/bb/bboutln.htm This course is normally a 2 day (approx. 13-16 hours) of live fire and classroom. I guess what is important out of this whole deal is, we ALL go through it and we can feel a little safer knowing this. When I go to a matches in the USA, you never know who your getting as a shooter. Also we don't yell "Finger" or Muzzle", normally at that point we are yelling "STOP" and your going home. As to RO'ing a newbie, our club takes the time to squad new shooters with experienced shooters. We guide and help them through their first 2-3 matches. The RO's are informed of their "newbie" status prior to stepping into the box. Guidance is give to the shooter by the RO on a as needed basis. An example is we had a right "green" shooter. He was shooting at a plate rack (6 plates) and was onto his second mag. The RO started calling his shots for him "Low right" "High left". Sure this goes against the rule book. In the end we had a happy shooter who is learning and not discouraged at their first match. Things are different when it comes to a Provincial/State/National type match but normally we've helped them along to get to this point. I guess what I'm trying to say (babbling?) is that if we want to see the sport grow and to keep new people we have to be open to helping them along... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassy knoll Posted January 19, 2002 Share Posted January 19, 2002 this weekend I am taking the RO course here in Ontario so I guess I will start paying back to the game for the lessons I learned as a first timer, I am sure the gratitude and respect I will receive as an RO will all be worth it... riiiiight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted February 11, 2002 Author Share Posted February 11, 2002 Oy vey. Ten new shooters in the match yesterday. A couple today. I'm getting some more gray hairs. Yesterday David was ROing on the other stage while we stayed back and called out duties for our stage on our side of the range. (Side by side, one squad shoots, then the other.) My ARO called out this guy as the shooter. As my back was turned he went into the box and drew his Glock, taking a sight picture on the left side stage while David was with his new shooter on the right side stage. His excuse, "But they said it was my turn to shoot." He wasn't even a complete newbie; he had been to a few matches before (after the safety class) and been to Gunsite and Front Site classes. He was adamant about it being his turn to shoot, despite a lack of a LAMR command and a lack of an RO! I explained how we abso-f'ing-lutely don't handle guns without supervision. He pleaded that they called his name, said he was the shooter. I had to walk away before I became unsportsmanlike and yelled, "No you twit, the shooter was the guy with the range officer on the other stage to the right and downrange of your Glock. You were a couple minutes from being the shooter and now you're a spectator!" On the bright side there were one or two new guys with flawless gun handling. At least somebody payed attention at the class and takes this seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 While unloading to show clear at our last saturday match a new guy let one off and missed his foot by inches. I'm all for thinning the herd but I'd prefer it not happen at one of my matches. If the new range owner finds out about this we're gone. (Edited by John Thompson at 11:34 am on Feb. 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 11, 2002 Share Posted February 11, 2002 Just to balance this out a bit, I RO-ed three new shooters through our club match this weekend. All of them did great, keeping their fingers off the trigger when appropriate and even were aware enough of the 180 to worry they'd broken it moving onto one target array (they hadn't, but it was close). All of them were a) friends/acquantances and somewhat experienced pistol shooters (Pins, plinking, etc), which I think helps a great deal since they actually listened to our advice and warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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