Precision AR Build

[45shooter]

Try Lancer upper. They use Krieger 1:7.7 barrels that shoot very well. Mine shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 consistently.

[co-exprs]

I was at the range yesterday with a buddy I helped build a rifle for. He's an iron shooter and wanted a 20" barrel for the sight radius. We opted for a Lilja AR740 http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/ar.htm. .750 under the handguard and .740 out front. Rifle gas (which will work down to 17"), 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber. We followed the break in procedure in my JP manual and SNAP! A week later we were printing about .6moa with some worked up 69gr hand loads. I wouldn't have believed it had I not been watching through the spotting scope, but that old iron sighter managed to put down a 5 shot, 5" group, on steel at 400yds with irons and a bipod. I'd say that's about as good as it gets in a 3gun rifle right there. He left the range last night extremely pleased.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Try Lancer upper. They use Krieger 1:7.7 barrels that shoot very well. Mine shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 consistently.

You really should take the "Snipers Hide Challenge." No one has yet been able to post 6, five round targets with consistent 1/2 moa at only 100 yards. If you can do that at 200, 100 should be a snap! Here's a link for you with the guide lines etc. Looking forward to seeing some great shooting!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3594709&page=1

[Alaskapopo]

Try Lancer upper. They use Krieger 1:7.7 barrels that shoot very well. Mine shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 consistently.

You really should take the "Snipers Hide Challenge." No one has yet been able to post 6, five round targets with consistent 1/2 moa at only 100 yards. If you can do that at 200, 100 should be a snap! Here's a link for you with the guide lines etc. Looking forward to seeing some great shooting!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3594709&page=1

I am not surprized that people have not been able to do that. You hear a lot of about 1/4 moa rifles on line but when it comes time to prove it the just can't do it consistently.

Pat

[duxbellorum]

So looking at what's available, it looks like the JP-15 20" "all purpose" "ready rifle" comes with all of the right features.

The difference between that and my choice of custom rifles is only the teflon coating, a barrel that's 2 inches shorter (I prefer an 18" barrel), and the compensator being held on by a jam nut instead of the "blended" method. is that worth 4-5 months of wait time? maybe if I were a better shot...as it stands, 4-5 months of shooting is more valuable than the customization so there it is, hopefully I'll be able to make the order next week.

[saibot]

Duxbellorum-

If you want an 18" I'd get an 18". A couple of inches out front make a big deal in how the gun handles and how you can maneuver through things like barricades. And onces really add up when you're shooting offhand especially at small/far targets. You might consider getting on the waiting list for exactly what you want (or closer) or expand your search out a bit. I have no experience with either, but I know a lot of people here like the Stag 3G and the Colt Competition Pro, both have 18" barrels. Just a thought.

[Sleepswithdogs]

So looking at what's available, it looks like the JP-15 20" "all purpose" "ready rifle" comes with all of the right features.

The difference between that and my choice of custom rifles is only the teflon coating, a barrel that's 2 inches shorter (I prefer an 18" barrel), and the compensator being held on by a jam nut instead of the "blended" method. is that worth 4-5 months of wait time? maybe if I were a better shot...as it stands, 4-5 months of shooting is more valuable than the customization so there it is, hopefully I'll be able to make the order next week.

Ask JP about making it an 18 instead of a 20.

Tar

[dlouie87]

Not sure if has been mentioned, but the JP LMBC doesn't even have serrations for the forward assist, so even if the plunger is on the rifle, with the JP LMBC it serves no function.

Tar

So what BCG would you recommend?

[duxbellorum]

I did ask JP about getting it in 18, can't be done...the "ready rifles" are pre-configured.

The other big point the rep at JP wanted to get across was that for 400 yard steel, I need a medium contour barrel and between the 18" and 20" med contour, the weight difference is less than 4 ounces.

[duxbellorum]

Not sure if has been mentioned, but the JP LMBC doesn't even have serrations for the forward assist, so even if the plunger is on the rifle, with the JP LMBC it serves no function.

Tar

So what BCG would you recommend?

Their full mass carrier has serrations for the FA, but frankly, the purpose of a forward assist is to close the bolt silently. Now if you're building an SBR for home defense maybe that's an issue, but with a competition gun, we really just release the bolt forward and let it do all of the work.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Not sure if has been mentioned, but the JP LMBC doesn't even have serrations for the forward assist, so even if the plunger is on the rifle, with the JP LMBC it serves no function.

Tar

So what BCG would you recommend?

I just picked up the JP LMBC with their QPQ treatment, I don't know of anyone who is making a better BC. I liked the look of the polished stainless but when I read up on how good the treated one was, much harder, more durable, easier to clean, the decision was easy. I went with his bolt too, the bolt being one of the problem pieces in this design, there's no sense in using anything but the best and that seems to be JP. There are lots of places to save some $$$, PSA makes a very good lower, but the BCG IMO, calls for the best you can find.

Tar

Edited October 3, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[bagdrag]

Try Lancer upper. They use Krieger 1:7.7 barrels that shoot very well. Mine shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 consistently.

You really should take the "Snipers Hide Challenge." No one has yet been able to post 6, five round targets with consistent 1/2 moa at only 100 yards. If you can do that at 200, 100 should be a snap! Here's a link for you with the guide lines etc. Looking forward to seeing some great shooting!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3594709&page=1

I looked at the rules for the challenge and it bothers me that they don't allow benchrest type setups (bipods or sandbags only). I want to eliminate the weak link in the challenge (the shooter) to see what the rifle is capable of.

[dlouie87]

Not sure if has been mentioned, but the JP LMBC doesn't even have serrations for the forward assist, so even if the plunger is on the rifle, with the JP LMBC it serves no function.

Tar

So what BCG would you recommend?

I just picked up the JP LMBC with their QPQ treatment, I don't know of anyone who is making a better BC. I liked the look of the polished stainless but when I read up on how good the treated one was, much harder, more durable, easier to clean, the decision was easy. I went with his bolt too, the bolt being one of the problem pieces in this design, there's no sense in using anything but the best and that seems to be JP. There are lots of places to save some $$$, PSA makes a very good lower, but the BCG IMO, calls for the best you can find.

Tar

I'm sold on the JP BC. Now the next step is deciding between the enhanced bolt or their completion kit. Is one better than the other? I know they use different materials but is it going to hinder the reliability of the bolt if I choose the completion kit of their enhanced bolt? This is unfamiliar territory for me.

Dan

[Shooter115]

Try Lancer upper. They use Krieger 1:7.7 barrels that shoot very well. Mine shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 consistently.

You really should take the "Snipers Hide Challenge." No one has yet been able to post 6, five round targets with consistent 1/2 moa at only 100 yards. If you can do that at 200, 100 should be a snap! Here's a link for you with the guide lines etc. Looking forward to seeing some great shooting!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3594709&page=1

I looked at the rules for the challenge and it bothers me that they don't allow benchrest type setups (bipods or sandbags only). I want to eliminate the weak link in the challenge (the shooter) to see what the rifle is capable of.

Not true. You can use any rest you want as long as it doesn't clamp the gun in. I tried it, but came up a bit short you can see my results here.My link Haven't posted on that site yet, I may eventually. Looks like I would be in 4th place right now.

I used my BR set on my first 2 attempts and it didn't work very well without bag riders on my AR. Third, best and final attempt was done using my old one piece rest from Target Shooters Inc.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Shooter115

[bagdrag]

Try Lancer upper. They use Krieger 1:7.7 barrels that shoot very well. Mine shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 consistently.

You really should take the "Snipers Hide Challenge." No one has yet been able to post 6, five round targets with consistent 1/2 moa at only 100 yards. If you can do that at 200, 100 should be a snap! Here's a link for you with the guide lines etc. Looking forward to seeing some great shooting!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3594709&page=1

I looked at the rules for the challenge and it bothers me that they don't allow benchrest type setups (bipods or sandbags only). I want to eliminate the weak link in the challenge (the shooter) to see what the rifle is capable of.

Not true. You can use any rest you want as long as it doesn't clamp the gun in. I tried it, but came up a bit short you can see my results here.My link Haven't posted on that site yet, I may eventually. Looks like I would be in 4th place right now.

I used my BR set on my first 2 attempts and it didn't work very well without bag riders on my AR. Third, best and final attempt was done using my old one piece rest from Target Shooters Inc.

Good shooting on your part, but look again on that Sniper's Hide thread to see what types of rests they allow.

I've tried it with a JP and a 1-4x Burris Tac30 scope and didn't even get close. I'm wondering if I could have done better with a better and more powerful scope. I'd really like to see other shooters (since I am not a good shooter) in this forum give it a try, especially those with JP's. The current leader is using a DPMS w/ 16" bull barrel and his smallest group right now is .197". His average is .459" and he just missed 1/2 MOA for a six groups on his target.

[zhunter]

Here is a AR newbie opinion.

Shot my AR for the first time yesterday. I many moons ago was a bolt gun precision guy that shot 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups on a regular basis (lets not forget it takes good conditions not unlike golf) and the glass used for 3 gun is not going to be conducive for shooting small groups. I have a Burris MTAC mounted on my Franken-AR, all top quality components, and there is no way I feel like in could shoot 1/2 MOA with this scope. Point is, I did not put it on there to shoot small groups, but rather 3Gun. I think most on this board lack the glass to take on this challenge.

I'm pretty sure I can consistently (only shot crappy American Eagle A223BL yesterday) shoot sub MOA when I start reloading, but NO WAY can I get consistent 1/2 MOA.

Now, give me the time, ammo to practice, and a scope with the reticle for shooting groups, and I think I could give it a go.

But, the point is, the fun is in the trying.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Not only fun trying, but a real eye opener. Not so easy to shoot consistent 1/2 moa, it's a LOT harder than some think it is.

Tar

[P.E. Kelley]

Post removed…I was having a and cranky moment.

Edited October 8, 2012 by P.E. Kelley

[bagdrag]

Not only fun trying, but a real eye opener. Not so easy to shoot consistent 1/2 moa, it's a LOT harder than some think it is.

Tar

I know it may be slightly easier to do, but I am impressed enough by consistent sub-MOA shooting. More than enough for 3-gun.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Not only fun trying, but a real eye opener. Not so easy to shoot consistent 1/2 moa, it's a LOT harder than some think it is.

Tar

I know it may be slightly easier to do, but I am impressed enough by consistent sub-MOA shooting. More than enough for 3-gun.

Ya, me too. I have shot some real nice 100 yd groups with a 300 win mag but, I'm finding it harder so far with an ar. Not that it is necessary for 3g, but its nice to know what reality is with the platform. I'm just getting this barrel broken in, and think both it and I will be more consistent in just a bit.

"Life" keeps getting in the way of my practice time!!

Tar

Edited October 8, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[Shooter115]

Try Lancer upper. They use Krieger 1:7.7 barrels that shoot very well. Mine shoot 1/2 MOA at 200 consistently.

You really should take the "Snipers Hide Challenge." No one has yet been able to post 6, five round targets with consistent 1/2 moa at only 100 yards. If you can do that at 200, 100 should be a snap! Here's a link for you with the guide lines etc. Looking forward to seeing some great shooting!!

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3594709&page=1

I looked at the rules for the challenge and it bothers me that they don't allow benchrest type setups (bipods or sandbags only). I want to eliminate the weak link in the challenge (the shooter) to see what the rifle is capable of.

Not true. You can use any rest you want as long as it doesn't clamp the gun in. I tried it, but came up a bit short you can see my results here.My link Haven't posted on that site yet, I may eventually. Looks like I would be in 4th place right now.

I used my BR set on my first 2 attempts and it didn't work very well without bag riders on my AR. Third, best and final attempt was done using my old one piece rest from Target Shooters Inc.

Good shooting on your part, but look again on that Sniper's Hide thread to see what types of rests they allow.

I've tried it with a JP and a 1-4x Burris Tac30 scope and didn't even get close. I'm wondering if I could have done better with a better and more powerful scope. I'd really like to see other shooters (since I am not a good shooter) in this forum give it a try, especially those with JP's. The current leader is using a DPMS w/ 16" bull barrel and his smallest group right now is .197". His average is .459" and he just missed 1/2 MOA for a six groups on his target.

Here's how it reads straight off the rules. I was shooting off the bench using a rest.

10.) Post what type of semi-auto rifle, ammo used, and how you took your shots (prone, bench, bipod, sandbags used, blah blah blah)........... No lock down gun vises!! Sandbags are ok, bipods are ok, monopods are ok.... If you are using a vise, then you are not really shooting the damn rifle and a monkey can shoot the rifle for you.

I was not using a lock down vice. That said, I agree with you and others that this would be a nearly impossible feat with the optics typically used on most 3-gun rigs. I wouldn't even bother to attemp it with my 1-4x MTAC, that center dot is huge. With 4x optics I'm happy with anything close to 1". Even with bigger glass it's tough, it took me 3 tries to get the target I posted in absolutely perfect conditions. Heck with my 16 1/2 pound 6mmBR bench rifle that shoots mostly in the 2's and 3's, it could be tough to get six consecutive groups on one piece of paper under .5MOA just due to me.

[duxbellorum]

I find the challenge rather useless for any analytical purpose...I want to evaluate the rifles independently from the shooters. I don't want to have to interpret "oh, he pulled this shot" or "oh crap that wind came out of nowhere" I am vastly more interested in groups shot from a vice than those shot by human beings.

[Sleepswithdogs]

I find the challenge rather useless for any analytical purpose...I want to evaluate the rifles independently from the shooters. I don't want to have to interpret "oh, he pulled this shot" or "oh crap that wind came out of nowhere" I am vastly more interested in groups shot from a vice than those shot by human beings.

I would think if the shooter was good, it wouldn't be all that difficult to evaluate accuracy. However, if the shooter is inexperienced or not very good, it would be tuff to tell where the inconsistency was coming from. Most practiced shooters are quite aware when they shank a shot. When I was shooting an Anschutz, there never once was a question in my mind if a lousy shot was me or the rifle, it was always the rifle.

Tar