NinerRider Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Okay, using Berry's Plated FP 115gr 9mm bullets, range brass, 4.2gr. of titegroup, CCI primers, COAL of 1.135" I am using a Lee 4 die set and the final die station is the Lee Factory Crimp Die which is a sizing and taper crimp die. My taper crimp was measuring .375 but I noticed that after loading a magazine and hand cycling the COAL was around 1.120" or so after I ejected the cartridges. I then added more taper crimp to get a taper crimp of .373 which seemed to help but my COAL is still losing .005 or so after chambering and ejection. After removing the bullet there is a slight crimp line, to my understanding you don't want to put to much of a crimp on these plated Berrys bullets. My question is, is this amount of COAL loss normal or should I try adding more crimp ? Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Is your sizing die setup correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polizei1 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Doesn't sound normal to me. Your crimp should be 0.375-0.378" and that works for me. Like yoshidaex said, check to make sure your dies are set up correctly and make sure they are tight and not moving freely. Edited September 6, 2012 by polizei1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 The FCD could be under sizing the bullets. Ditch it and see if that fixes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polizei1 Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Well, he's using plated bullets...pull one and see if the crimp is too tight and pulling the plating off? Or maybe crimping into the plating? I don't know for sure, I shoot FMJ. FWIW, I've had zero issues with my FCD (yea I know, lot's of controversy). Edited September 6, 2012 by polizei1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac_driver Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 i'm using a crimp of .377 with berry's bullets using win brass. check to see if you might be using too much flare the bullet should just sit straight on the case, falling into the case no more than 1/16". crimp should be case wall thickness x 2 + bullet diameter. ex win .011 x 2 = .022 + .356 = .378 and when i measure crimp i get .377 to .378 with win cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Have you tried to take the round and push it firmly on a table or stable surface, don't smack it or anything. Just give it a nice firm push and then check to see if they are still setting back into the case. What pistol are you shooting these in? Do you see any marks on the bullet itself after chambering it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerRider Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Well, he's using plated bullets...pull one and see if the crimp is too tight and pulling the plating off? Or maybe crimping into the plating? I don't know for sure, I shoot FMJ. FWIW, I've had zero issues with my FCD (yea I know, lot's of controversy). I have pulled a lot and there is a light crimp in the plating which I have read is normal since they are plated and not FMJ, plating is not even close to being pulled off. I believe the sizing die is setup correctly, I can drop it into a STI chamber once it is sized and it head-spaces perfectly, it measures .383-.385 after sizing. If I add more taper crimp it just puts more crimp grove into the bullet but doesn't hold the bullet any tighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerRider Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 i'm using a crimp of .377 with berry's bullets using win brass. check to see if you might be using too much flare the bullet should just sit straight on the case, falling into the case no more than 1/16". crimp should be case wall thickness x 2 + bullet diameter. ex win .011 x 2 = .022 + .356 = .378 and when i measure crimp i get .377 to .378 with win cases. I thought about this also it will be my next plan of attack, I will take out a little more flare and reduce the crimp to .376. If you pull a bullet are you getting any grove in the bullet after taper crimping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerRider Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Have you tried to take the round and push it firmly on a table or stable surface, don't smack it or anything. Just give it a nice firm push and then check to see if they are still setting back into the case. What pistol are you shooting these in? Do you see any marks on the bullet itself after chambering it? Thanks I am shooting these out of an STI Edge, If I pushed these on a table I am sure the would setback. Even after I taper crimp them real good I can grab the bullet and get it to move with a little effort. I plan on using MG CMJ 124gr. but I just started reloading and wanted to practice and learn as much as I can before my MG bullets get here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinerRider Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 I even tried setting the COAL to 1.130 to give it a little more bullet surface for the case to grab on to but it didn't seem to make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 A setback of .005 by itself is not a problem. Here's one of the reason why I say that. I measured setback with 9mm Factory Federal ammo (with 115 grain plated bullets) fed through a single stack 1911. The average setback was 0.024 inches! That is extreme by most standards, but as noted, was "normal" for this batch of ammo. Also, 96% of the rounds had setback. Setback, while not desirable, is "common." The feeding process is pretty violent. The question of how much setback is acceptable is not easy to define, but I would not be worried about .005 inches since that is less than I see with most factory ammo of various calibers in a 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 As can be seen here, a lot of people think the crimp is what should hold the bullet in the brass, this is not the case with 9mm luger. Neck tension should mainly come as a result of the sized case, if it does not there are two possibilities: the bullet is too small, or the case is not being resized small enough. You should be able to size and flare the brass then put in a bullet. Skip the factory crimp die. Now, push on the bullet in the brass. Can you move the bullet with just moderate pressure from your hands? If so, one of the two situations above exists. If you can't move the bullet at this step, put it through the factory crimp die. Can you move the bullet now? If so, you just overcrimped it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac_driver Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 no there is no sign of a grove in the plating after a bullet is pulled. my col is 1.130 however i'm using 147gr. bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Berry's FP 115gr 9mm bullets, COAL of 1.135". the COAL was around 1.120" after I ejected the cartridges. Niner, have you tried loading up a few at 1.120" ? See if that sets back? Might work better for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockman1000 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I think you're better off not using the FCD with the plated bullets, FMJ, CMJ, JHP, yes. I would hazard a guess that when you use the FCD, it is resizing the bullet while in the case & when it comes back out of the die the brass springs back a little enough for the the bullet to be loose enough to setback. I tried using the FCD with lead & had setback issues. Went back to a regular crimp die & haven't had any issues since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Rod Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Sizing die. As stated before its neck tension that holds the bullet. Using those same Berrys 115gr bullets I can seat the bullet and without crimping it push it against the bench and it doesn't move. With the lightest of crimp I can chamber 5-6 times with no measurable setback. When I pull bullets you can barely see any sign of a crimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 You could consider a Lee undersize die for sizing and depriming. These size the case more than standard dies. Also, a lot of crimp can squeeze the bullet down and a lead bullet will not spring back like the case will. Ideally, you should aim for a "wasp waist" effect on your loaded rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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