chevyoneton Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I picked up an old S&W Model 10 last year that somebody put a LOT of time and money into making it a PPC gun. I really like it, shoot it well, and want to use it for Metallic Sight in NRA Action Pistol. It seems like somebody else may have had a similar idea as the wings around the front sight on the Bomar rib have been neatly cut off. My understanding of the rules for Metallic Sight indicates that wings are not allowed. Anyway I have the M10, an open front Safriland holster, 20+ speed loaders, three double speedloader pouches, hoards of .38 brass, 148 & 158 grain lead bullets, 1000 Federal Match SP Primers, an assortment of powders, and a Dillon 550 ready to go. I found a used Safriland loading tray for the speed loaders and when I told the seller my intentions he replied “I didn’t think anybody was using K-frames anymore”. I’ll admit that while a nice L frame might be more appropriate, the only L frame I own is a 686 Plus Snubbie. In addition to the M10 I also have a sweet S&W Model 14 and a Colt Officer’s Model Match that may go in the range bag to a match someday. To sum, I want to shoot more NRA Action AND want to shoot my old .38 Special “Target” pistols and doing both at the same time seems like a great idea and loads of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmbeckwith Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 That is what I started with, an old PPC Gun. The only thing to remember is a K frame can't stand a steady diet of Jackedted bullets. I know, I crack a forcing cone. You are correct on the wings, they are not allowed in Metallic. Everything else sonds fine. Have fun and we will see you next year at the Midway USA NRA Bianchi Cup!!!! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg in VA Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I shot a model 66 6" for my first and second year at the cup. My ammo was HP-38 and a ZERO 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter. If you use the 158's the lead for the mover at 25 yards is about 3-4 inches in front of the target, thats the only disadvantage on the heavy bullets, but the plates will go down easy. If you use the 148's and they are hollow base make sure they are thick based bullets or you might blow off the base, this would result in 2 holes in the target up close and no hole in the target at 50 yds. If you need any more help or have any questions just ask, metallic is what I shoot at the Cup, and I use a revlover. Greg in VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Look about for 135gr Lead Wadcutters. They will work brilliantly as well. Lead is essentially edge of the target at 25y for the mover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevyoneton Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 Thanks for the tips and encouragement. Lead on the mover is something I have been wondering about. That is one of those things I will just have to learn after I settle on an accurate load I suppose. I have been shooting NRA Action with my USPA Production gun, a .40 S&W XDm 5.25 with mouse fart 180 grain lead loads. I have not done terribly and they do slap steel hard but a little quicker load would probably be better for NRA Action. I need to do a lot of load development for the Model 10 and .38 Special. I have both 148 grain HB and DEWC bullets to work with and 158 grain SWCs. I want to save the HBWC for use in my S&W 52 and think the 158s are the choice for the plates but not ideal on the mover. I have 4,000 of the 158s I bought cheap so they will probably get the nod for now. I just need to find time to start loading and making empty brass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfieldshooter Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 chevyoneton Same as Greg I started with a Model 66 and am actually rebuilding it as a 'club gun' to get the newer guys at the club up and running in AP. The wings you are talking about,I understand,are the wings on the front sight and not barricade wings. Sight wings are allowed in Metallic but not barricade wings. As they have been cut off it isn't a problem anyway. As Kim mentioned using jacketed ammo produces a cracked forcing cone,(don't ask me how I know),but I used 135gn SWC lead with N320 and it was a soft load and accurate. See you at BC goldfieldshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtCop Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Chevyoneton, I started off in metalic in 2011 with a semi auto, then switched over to a revo. I purchased a S&W model 64 that had been converted into a PPC gun by Behlert Precision in 1989. I love shooting this thing! It had a Bomar rib on it, but that has since gone to the way side and I now shoot in the open class with it. I had Warren Moore rework the trigger, bob the hammer, add wings and a finger stop to the barrel, then one of his Stick Shift mover bases and we topped it off with a Ultra Dot match dot optic. I worked the factory target grips over and added my own prone base to the bottom of them. Somewhere on here are a couple of photo's of my gun. My scores have improved greatly since moving up to the open class. I shoot Zero 148 gr DEWC lead bullets. Like Kim said, stay away from the jacketed stuff. My powder of choice is 231 just because I had a bunch of it on hand. I get good accuracy from my loads and make power factor easily. I tried using CCI primers at first, but that didn't work at all with the light trigger pull, so I quickly made the switch to Federal's and I rarely have a misfire (light primer strike) from them. I shot it for the first time in competiton this year at the Flagler Cup, then went to Bianchi with it this year. The gun is an absolute pleasure to shoot. I've got a CR Speed holster for it and use Safariland Comp II speedloaders with a loading block. It sounds like you are on the right track with your plans of using your gun for AP events. Enjoy the game, it's challenging but you will meet lots of shooters along the way that will be more than willing to give you a helping hand. The Region X Match is coming up in Oct. at the Pioneer Gun club in K.C.MO. It's a fun laid back shoot, if you have a chance come and shoot it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Al previous posts were spot on. I too shoot K frames, and I have cracked barrels with jacketed bullets and "fast" poders like W231, BE, WST etc. Last year I used the Precision Black Bullet in 125 gr w/WST and it worked great. Firm crimp or it will lead even though moly coated. I started using Zero 125 gra jacketed bullets with a much slower powder and it workd great and no barrel issue yet. The powder I chose was WSF. There is no data, so I guessed and so far all has been good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Martin, Had to use WSF some years back with wadcutters in the 38Special. Got given a heap by an old shotgun shooter who had given in reloading. 5.0gr got me to 1000fps with Sierra 125gr. 6" 686. Too smokey for my tastes, but the price was right. Needs a bit of crimp to make sure it lights up. Went to WSL for a while until that disappeared. WSF will work fine if you are running a comp as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 135 grain wadcutters with 3.5 grains of Clays.... 150K through one K frame so far and it still holds the Xring on a PPC target at 50 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) 135 grain wadcutters with 3.5 grains of Clays.... 150K through one K frame so far and it still holds the Xring on a PPC target at 50 yards. Could you give the source for the wadcutters? Any leading issues? Thanks. Edited January 10, 2013 by toothguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Anyone that makes projectiles using a Magma machine can make them, it is a std mould from them. http://www.magmaengineering.com/PDF/FBMar092011b.pdf or http://www.magmaengineering.com/PDF/BBMar122011b.pdf I get mine from Westcastings in Australia. He uses a POlymer Painted on Lube (Much like BBI and a few others) but his are a variety of colours but we go with the Gold Coloured projectiles. http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/WESTCASTINGS.htm leading can occour as the coating is not hugely thick. Some good sharp rifling may cut through. For AP you will be keeping the speed to 900fps so that help keep the leading down some anyway. If you can find out what you need to do to get bullets imported I can arrange for them to get up there for a reasonable price. A sample will be easy. I expect some in this month. But like most bullet makers he is somewhat slow to supply right now. My order is arriving this month from being ordered in Late September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 135 grain wadcutters with 3.5 grains of Clays.... 150K through one K frame so far and it still holds the Xring on a PPC target at 50 yards. Could you give the source for the wadcutters? Any leading issues? Thanks. I buy mine from a guy nearby who runs Magma 148BB WC moulds that have had the bevel base part machined off the moulds - they shoot fine with 3.5 gns of Clays, 3.7gns of WST or 4.1gns of W231. I prefer plain lead boolits with Rooster Red lube, so there is a tiny bit of leading with the Clays, and next to none with WST or 231. If I get coated boolits there is no leading with any of the powders I use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 135 grain wadcutters with 3.5 grains of Clays.... 150K through one K frame so far and it still holds the Xring on a PPC target at 50 yards. Could you give the source for the wadcutters? Any leading issues? Thanks. I buy mine from a guy nearby who runs Magma 148BB WC moulds that have had the bevel base part machined off the moulds - they shoot fine with 3.5 gns of Clays, 3.7gns of WST or 4.1gns of W231. I prefer plain lead boolits with Rooster Red lube, so there is a tiny bit of leading with the Clays, and next to none with WST or 231. If I get coated boolits there is no leading with any of the powders I use. Any idea what the hardness is? thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The majority of the time he uses a 92/6/2 mix (92% lead, 6% antimony and 2% tin), so the Brinell hardness should be around 18. They seem OK as you can just mark them with a fingernail before he puts the green coating on them. I used to hand cast some using a 60% wheelweight and 40% linotype mix and I believe that mine were a tad harder, but definately shot no better, nor were they less inclined to show a little pressure leading around the forcing cone end of the barrel ! For lead revolver boolts it isn't so much about hardness as it is about propellant powder choice - powders that build pressure quickly like Clays, tend to produce a bit of pressure leading but still shoot OK, other powders like W231 seem to be a bit more linear in the way they build pressure and lead less. The hardness of the projectile can be a factor in leading, but not the sole one, working pressure and flame temperature also have a big influence. A good bullet lube will help a lot and I have even tried lubing coated boolits just for the hell of it. Some of the best lead boolits I have ever shot were handcast from soft wheelweight material and then heat treated in a kitchen stove. They shot like jacketed projectiles and yet still left a tiny bit of lead in the forcing cone area of my revolvers.\ YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Bayou Bullets has a 138 gr BNWC bullet that would be close. He has a polymer type HI-TEK-LUBE might be just the ticket. I need to experiment with some. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 That's the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allgoodhits Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Does Bayou Bullets use Gator Snot as a lube? These are the green bullets that Jerry M. uses correct? Although, I think Jerry uses a 158 RN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Does Bayou Bullets use Gator Snot as a lube? These are the green bullets that Jerry M. uses correct? Although, I think Jerry uses a 158 RN. http://www.bayoubullets.net/Coating.html I think that's right. He's calling it HI-TEK-LUBE now, I think the formula was changed due to material availability. From what I have read everyone likes the bullets and the new coating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Desk Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Hmmm...... using another Australian coating, must be something in the water down under that agrees with Cajun boolits ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnut315 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I am thinking of dragging out an old k frame open gun to shoot the local matches this summer. May even make it up to Kansas City some weekend if things work out. Can't shoot the cup this year not enough vacation and may not have enough seniority to get that week off later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I am thinking of dragging out an old k frame open gun to shoot the local matches this summer. May even make it up to Kansas City some weekend if things work out. Can't shoot the cup this year not enough vacation and may not have enough seniority to get that week off later. http://pioneergunclub.org/ Check the calendar for dates, you and anyone else, are always welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRB Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I shot a model 66 6" for my first and second year at the cup. My ammo was HP-38 and a ZERO 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter. If you use the 158's the lead for the mover at 25 yards is about 3-4 inches in front of the target, thats the only disadvantage on the heavy bullets, but the plates will go down easy. If you use the 148's and they are hollow base make sure they are thick based bullets or you might blow off the base, this would result in 2 holes in the target up close and no hole in the target at 50 yds. If you need any more help or have any questions just ask, metallic is what I shoot at the Cup, and I use a revlover. Greg in VA Greg you don't use a revolver you use a rifle with a rotating cylinder.Russell Edited January 16, 2013 by JRB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Holy crap, Melon Head can type. Shovel coal into that old computer up there did we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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