Flexmoney Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I think people are saying if I don't need to use the belt for that purpose, the rule doesn't apply ... Yeah, that is exactly what they are trying to say. Obviously though, the rule doesn't change based on...well, anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Whats the ruling if the holster & belt fall off the shooter during the course of fire? I think we have all seen this. I've never seen that happen. Off topic: I've only heard about this third hand from shooters who have been warning me that if I wear my belt backwards that I should use the keeper that comes with the belt. They've described past matches where the stages would have lots of hanging obstacles for pouches and holsters to get entangled with. A couple shooters got tangled up, turned the wrong direction, and inadvertently stripped the belts off the inner belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Whats the ruling if the holster & belt fall off the shooter during the course of fire? I think we have all seen this. I've never seen that happen. Neither have I. (Damn, this one's gotten a lot of mileage!) I have seen it at a Level 1. Funny as hell!!! Lucky for the shooter the CoF's layout required him to retrace steps right past his rig. He scooped a mag from a pouch on the move for a reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootingchef Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 Belt cones off...what's the penalty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 On one hand in the pure spirit of competition I don't like to change equipment to meet any particular stage. I'm gamey but I just don't think it's right. But...If you have a stage that has you starting laying in a bed an argument can be made that wearing a belt to bed isn't normal and therefore in the true spirit of the stage you should have the option of taking it off. My feeling is it's up to the Match Officials and as long as they do it the same for all, I'll accept their ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I asked this once before but got no answer so I am going to try again. If you don't have a holster on how do you comply with this rule? 8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his handgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I don't think you can comply with that "must" part of 8.3.7.3 if you have a bag. 5.2.1, 10.5.12, and 10.5.13 do talk about a gun bag as storage for a gun beyond a holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 On one hand in the pure spirit of competition I don't like to change equipment to meet any particular stage. I'm gamey but I just don't think it's right. But...If you have a stage that has you starting laying in a bed an argument can be made that wearing a belt to bed isn't normal and therefore in the true spirit of the stage you should have the option of taking it off. My feeling is it's up to the Match Officials and as long as they do it the same for all, I'll accept their ruling. Which is what 5.2.3 states, the WSB can allow the competitor to remove their belt for the stage, but that is the only time it is allowed. If it does not say the belt/holster can be removed then it must be worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) ...If you have a stage that has you starting laying in a bed an argument can be made that wearing a belt to bed isn't normal and therefore in the true spirit of the stage you should have the option of taking it off. I live in AZ where we all wear our guns in bed. What kind of wet pants liberal state is Kansas Edited August 12, 2012 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) Belt cones off...what's the penalty? One procedural penalty per shot fired while in violation? Seriously, if an accident I'd probably let him carry on as long as he could do so safely. If I thought the competitor did it deliberately to get a competitive advantage, however, he'd earn a DQ for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Edited August 12, 2012 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I asked this once before but got no answer so I am going to try again. If you don't have a holster on how do you comply with this rule? 8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his handgun. I answered it here. Because the defined ways of carry and storage are denoted in another rule, quoted in the linked post, they are considered the same as holstering. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=157128&view=findpost&p=1757379 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I cannot even believe we're having this discussion. The rule says you can't change the position of your gear. If your gear is off your body, it's in a different position! This is completely and obviously different from taking it off and putting it back on in (within reasonable tolerances) the same place it was before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I cannot even believe we're having this discussion. The rule says you can't change the position of your gear. If your gear is off your body, it's in a different position! This is completely and obviously different from taking it off and putting it back on in (within reasonable tolerances) the same place it was before. I understand why we are having the conversation and appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I am pretty solidly in Kyle's camp, but I shut up and listen when Troy speaks. Riddle me this... Why even have this rule if it isn't to ensure the shooter's gear stays in the same place on each and every stage? I'd be open to hearing discussions on getting rid of the rule, but I think it's purpose is clear. WOW. I love to discuss, debate, argue etc over rules more than the average guy but this is nonsense to me. The rule, for once, is pretty clear on this one. You have to have your gear on while shooting. if it is illegal to stick a magnet on your belt just to shoot a table start stage then it certainly is not legal to remove your rig so your big butt can lay on a table or sit in a chair. This. All of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Well, maybe and maybe not. Consider this: is there a rule that dictates when a competitor may don or remove his equipment belt? Here's a scenario that I could easily see happening: first stage of a match, and the stage is as Ken describes; start on a bed or in a chair, gun on a table, all ammo/magazines on the table. Competitor has not geared up, and doesn't see a need to, since his gun and ammo all come from the table. He walks up with his shooting bag, and at "Make Ready", prepares his gun and ammo per the WSB, and assumes the start position, no equipment belt on. What rule would you cite that says he has to don one? Even if it wasn't the first stage, I don't see a rule prohibiting taking the belt off between stages, so a savvy competitor might just take it off. The only rules I can see state that when you wear your belt, it has to be worn at waist level, securely affixed, can't move the equipment around on it, etc. I don't see one that says you must put your belt on at all, at least not until you need it, obviously. See 5.2.1--it doesn't require a belt to be worn, or a holster used, it simply states how you have to carry a gun when you aren't shooting a stage. Hence, my response to Ken: you can take the belt off at any time--that's obviously not prohibited by rule, or you couldn't take it off to go to the bathroom, have lunch, take a break, whatever. It's universally accepted that you can't move your equipment around on your belt, and in fact is spelled out by rule, 5.2.5.3, which, to my reading would allow a stage briefing to state that you couldn't wear a belt at all. This rule applies to the position of holsters and mag holders and bags, on the belt. Those stay the same, on the belt, whether it's off you or on you. It can't mean you have to wear a belt, because, obviously, you don't--you can take it off any time during a match. This. Maybe not agreeing, but this is why I'll discuss it. And if you think it's crazy - feel free not to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrVvrroomm Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Bed stage, all mags on one stand, unloaded pistol on the other. Bed itself is Area A. Shoot all targets from area A. 8 round CoF. I want to take my holster off before I shoot this stage, AM I legal to do so? 2012 Area 3, stage 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 ...If you have a stage that has you starting laying in a bed an argument can be made that wearing a belt to bed isn't normal and therefore in the true spirit of the stage you should have the option of taking it off. I live in AZ where we all wear our guns in bed. What kind of wet pants liberal state is Kansas Happily I live in the country away from prying eyes and the Old Ladies out here are liable to be packing in the cab of their pickup. But the wife draws the line at me wearing a rig to bed. She doesn't mind me handling my guns in bed, but I toss and turn at night and she doesn't want me to get bruised up after she wacks me upside the head getting me to move the roscoe out of her side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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