remoandiris Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Its a shooting game that scores people on shooting, not a mind fart game. If your stage is so jacked up an RO needs to recite procedures then maybe the problem is the stage not the coaching. Sounds like the RO is getting shooters through a stage the best and fairest way he could. This!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) Its a shooting game that scores people on shooting, not a mind fart game. If your stage is so jacked up an RO needs to recite procedures then maybe the problem is the stage not the coaching. Sounds like the RO is getting shooters through a stage the best and fairest way he could. I have to disagree. Every memory stage is a mind fart stage to one degree or another depending on the individual shooter. I personally love the wide open run and gun simple stages but there needs to be a mix in any match. USPSA is about more than just shooting And all I saying is that the RO is not getting shooters through a stage in the fairest way he could if he violated a rule to do it. I did not write the rule but I still have to abide by it. Edited July 3, 2012 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 A very experienced RO/MD, two board members and a former NROI instructor have all offered opinions that differ from yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Cute Kevin..... So how do you handle this: Comp:"what's the procedure for String 3?" RO: "I can't tell you that, it would be coaching. Are you Ready?" Comp: "Not Ready." Rinse, lather, repeat..... I don't know. That's why I brought it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 A very experienced RO/MD, two board members and a former NROI instructor have all offered opinions that differ from yours. OK... My opinion is what exactly? That there is a rule that says you can't coach during a course of fire unless a shooter asks at a level one. And if you tell a shooter how to engage a string during a course of fire that is coaching. I saw it and I wondered if it is OK or if it's wrong. So what you are saying is that it is OK. Got it. See how easy that was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 A very experienced RO/MD, two board members and a former NROI instructor have all offered opinions that differ from yours. OK... My opinion is what exactly? That there is a rule that says you can't coach during a course of fire unless a shooter asks at a level one. And if you tell a shooter how to engage a string during a course of fire that is coaching. I saw it and I wondered if it is OK or if it's wrong. So what you are saying is that it is OK. Got it. See how easy that was! Kevin, there's a difference between reminding someone what the next string is and saying in the middle of a stage "Don't forget, those last three targets need to be engaged weakhand only." The difference is "off the clock" versus "on the clock" And for those of you raising the "running the slide or inserting a mag argument" the shooter's responsible for their gear -- always. The shooter's also responsible for knowing how to execute either the stage or the string at hand after "Standby." That's it though -- he's not expected to remember every nuance of every string on a multi-string stage.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 You have me convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Maybe I did not understand the question, but I don't see this being different than reading each section of a multi-string standards. "From the 50 yard line ..." "From the 25 yard line ..." etc. etc. Which is fine if you are a dedicated RO who reads the WSB to every shooter as they come to the line, but what if you are embedded and half the squads read it to everyone and the other half leave it up to the shooter to remember? I disagree. We get what we deserve in most cases. If there isn't an RO who can read the walkthrough, then someone needs to take the bull by the horns and read the thing themselves. If we settle for junk then we will always have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Maybe I did not understand the question, but I don't see this being different than reading each section of a multi-string standards. "From the 50 yard line ..." "From the 25 yard line ..." etc. etc. Which is fine if you are a dedicated RO who reads the WSB to every shooter as they come to the line, but what if you are embedded and half the squads read it to everyone and the other half leave it up to the shooter to remember? I disagree. We get what we deserve in most cases. If there isn't an RO who can read the walkthrough, then someone needs to take the bull by the horns and read the thing themselves. If we settle for junk then we will always have it. I am thinking of something more like CM 03-11 El Strong & Weak Pres. First string is Freestyle/Stronghand, the second is Freestyle/Weakhand. Squad 1 has RO's who tell every shooter at the line "OK this string is __________ so they have no procedurals for failing to follow the WSB. Squad 2 RO's do not voluntarily remind anybody at the line so 3 shooters get procedurals for not following the WSB. This is how I was looking at Sarge's initial post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Kevin, thanks for posting. I should have put a smiley face in my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 I am thinking of something more like CM 03-11 El Strong & Weak Pres. First string is Freestyle/Stronghand, the second is Freestyle/Weakhand. Squad 1 has RO's who tell every shooter at the line "OK this string is __________ so they have no procedurals for failing to follow the WSB. Squad 2 RO's do not voluntarily remind anybody at the line so 3 shooters get procedurals for not following the WSB. This is how I was looking at Sarge's initial post. And this was partly my point by mentioning that the RO's did not even read it to me after reading it to everybody else in the squad. This is on a smaller scale but the same as one squad getting the reminders and another not. There are many different scenarios where this could be an issue not just weakhand, stronghand etc. What about "can you count"? Should every shooter get a reminder right before the beep of how many rounds to shoot before reloading? Really, I don't care one way or the other. I have a lot of respect for Flex, Gary and the others and value everybody's opinion. I just don't want to be at a bigger match someday and get questioned why I am reminding every shooter of how to shoot a string. I want to be able to say something more than, "I read it on Enos". I'm not gonna lie, Almost every match I shoot I pull out the rulebook at some point. Standardization and continuity are important to me. I'm not sorry for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Kevin, thanks for posting. I should have put a smiley face in my post. Like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I just don't want to be at a bigger match someday and get questioned why I am reminding every shooter of how to shoot a string. I want to be able to say something more than, "I read it on Enos". That shouldn't happen. Any RM worth his salt will review how to run the stage with you before you run your first shooter -- just so that everyone's on the same page, and every shooter gets a fair shot at the stage.... I'm not gonna lie, Almost every match I shoot I pull out the rulebook at some point. Standardization and continuity are important to me. I'm not sorry for that. Thank you for caring enough to consult the rulebook, rather than winging it from memory.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveU Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 How about appending this somewhere: " the shooter may request or be provided reminders of the contents of the written stage briefing at any time before the start signal of any string." That takes the "gotcha" out of the sport but makes it legal. Can qualify that if you don't want it happening at level II or III matches .... But I personally don't see the harm. That's why we ask if they are ready. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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