Doug does it AGAIN

[NOSAJ19]

The plates are intimidating to most of us mere mortals even in local matches, never mind the intense pressure at the Bianchi Cup. There are no 8s or 5s to let you survive a less than perfect shot...

You won't win the match on the plates, but you can easily lose the match there.

Truer words were never spoken, not that I'd know anything about that.

I was leading Production by five points going into the Plates. I stress the word "was". I am now producing the obligatory YouTube excuse video in which I'll be shooting plates whilst aiming through a mirror weak-handed just to restore my bruised reputation to a sceptical public.

Seriously though, I learned something: listen to Rob when he warns you about losing your sights in the bright sun against the dark background there. I had sighting options in the form of a fiber-optic front blade and paint but elected to stick with what I had, black-on-black. That became grey-on-fear at the 25 yard line, and it killed me.

So, word to the wise. I'll not make that mistake again. I'll definitely make a different one instead next time.

That said, I am very happy to see Vance take it. He's had this coming for a long time, and he'll be a formidable team mate with me in Germany come September. I can't wait.

Of the various competitive Production pistol options for the Cup, preferences seem to be settling out between the XD-M 5.25, the X5 AllAround, and everything else.

-Bruce

So you would run a FO front sight, perminantly in the future?

[BPiatt]

Rob was shooting the 5.25 XDm, I think BJ was shooting a glock, Enoch an M&P.

Plates got a lot of people this year.

I think it was last year that they put shredded tires on the berm behind the plates to control water errosion.

Because it was very sunny this year and the trees are growing around that range, the shredded tires were in the shade and made it look very black. Naturally, the black iron sights were lost in the black background.

Edited May 31, 2012 by BPiatt

[grayguns]

So you would run a FO front sight, perminantly in the future?

That remains to be seen, so to speak, but I will definitely be doing my homework on sighting options that may include coloured blades and so forth.

For me (setting aside stark terror for a moment), the issue wasn't one of seeing the front blade clearly, but rather of losing it's reference to the rear notch. I winged shots into the next ZIP code as a result of not being able to see clear alignment when I hit the mat.

Last year, I had great difficulty shooting consistently from prone at 50 yards in poor light. Many of us had that problem, of course. My response was to tighten up my sight picture to get the rear notch to appear just within the 18" wide target at 50. That worked splendidly and I shot the Practical really well this year.

However, even though I ran a very tight .084" rear notch in anticipation of this issue on the Practical event, I still lost the rear blade in the glaring contrast between the edge of each plate and the dark background at 25 yards when prone. In other words, my aligned sights still described, or covered, a slightly larger area than the plate at that distance, and they lacked adequate contrast to the background. I now can't be sure that even if my carbide smoker been working, I would have had enough contrast to see the rear blade and notch clearly enough to assure 12 hits.

So, what to do? A fiber optic front blade would not solve this for me. A contrasting rear blade would, and that's what I am playing with now as I prepare for Germany. In looking at videos of the BDMP range, it seems lighting will be interesting there as well.

I'm all ears for suggestions?

-Bruce

[grayguns]

Rob was shooting the 5.25 XDm, I think BJ was shooting a glock, Enoch an M&P.

Plates got a lot of people this year.

I think it was last year that they put shredded tires on the berm behind the plates to control water errosion.

Because it was very sunny this year and the trees are growing around that range, the shredded tires were in the shade and made it look very black. Naturally, the black iron sights were lost in the black background.

Exactly. What do you propose for a solution for next year, Bruce? I'm thinking green.

[diehli]

What about FO front and rear?

[Chuck Anderson]

Of the various competitive Production pistol options for the Cup, preferences seem to be settling out between the XD-M 5.25, the X5 AllAround, and everything else.

-Bruce

I'm a little curious about this. I heard Vance shot an SP-01, Robbie won it last year with a 5.25, Kyle the year before with an XD if memory serves and Sevigny the year before with a Glock 34. Another outstanding name in the field Enoch Smith runs an M&P. BJ this year ran a revolver. Seems like there are a lot of very, very good choices in Production but I haven't seen a clear standout. But then again I missed this year.

BTW, I think your problem on the plates was a lack of match practice. We need to be seeing you in Sherwood for the monthly AP matches. And bring your crew down here will ya?

[Toolguy]

I have had that problem for years shooting PPC with black sights on a black target. I use fiber optic front and rear on all my iron sight revos, that works great, but the PPC guns have a rib sight that is not easily adaptable to F/O. I finally sandblasted the front and rear and oiled them. This gives a dark gray sight that is glareproof, never needs blackened and has enough conrtast on black to be able to tell the sights from the target. It would be appropriate for someone named Bruce Gray.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Toolguy

[Griz]

I still lost the rear blade in the glaring contrast between the edge of each plate and the dark background at 25 yards when prone. In other words, my aligned sights still described, or covered, a slightly larger area than the plate at that distance, and they lacked adequate contrast to the background. I now can't be sure that even if my carbide smoker been working, I would have had enough contrast to see the rear blade and notch clearly enough to assure 12 hits.

For me, putting scotch tape on my weak-side lens is key. When the sun is glaring and I go prone, if I squint that off side eye, I suddenly have a very hard time seeing my sights. If I have taped my glasses and leave both eyes open I am OK.

[DWFAN]

Of the various competitive Production pistol options for the Cup, preferences seem to be settling out between the XD-M 5.25, the X5 AllAround, and everything else.

-Bruce

I'm a little curious about this. I heard Vance shot an SP-01, Robbie won it last year with a 5.25, Kyle the year before with an XD if memory serves and Sevigny the year before with a Glock 34. Another outstanding name in the field Enoch Smith runs an M&P. BJ this year ran a revolver. Seems like there are a lot of very, very good choices in Production but I haven't seen a clear standout. But then again I missed this year.

BTW, I think your problem on the plates was a lack of match practice. We need to be seeing you in Sherwood for the monthly AP matches. And bring your crew down here will ya?

I also thought Enoch had the M&P this year, but after seeing Julie's pics, he was indeed using the 5.25.

2 years ago I shot production, and the plates were horrible then to see for me at my less than I deal time of day. The white plate, light colored rock/dirt, and a perfect glare made the plates disappear prone at 20 and 25.

[grayguns]

Of the various competitive Production pistol options for the Cup, preferences seem to be settling out between the XD-M 5.25, the X5 AllAround, and everything else.

-Bruce

I'm a little curious about this. I heard Vance shot an SP-01, Robbie won it last year with a 5.25, Kyle the year before with an XD if memory serves and Sevigny the year before with a Glock 34. Another outstanding name in the field Enoch Smith runs an M&P. BJ this year ran a revolver. Seems like there are a lot of very, very good choices in Production but I haven't seen a clear standout. But then again I missed this year.

BTW, I think your problem on the plates was a lack of match practice. We need to be seeing you in Sherwood for the monthly AP matches. And bring your crew down here will ya?

I also thought Enoch had the M&P this year, but after seeing Julie's pics, he was indeed using the 5.25.

2 years ago I shot production, and the plates were horrible then to see for me at my less than I deal time of day. The white plate, light colored rock/dirt, and a perfect glare made the plates disappear prone at 20 and 25.

Enoch is a true talent, and the 5.25 seems to suit him well. The dude rightfully scares me with that thing!

As for the plates, I am considering whether to shoot them standing if such conditions obtain next year, the ostensible tradeoff in stability being that I can keep the sight picture on the plate and block some glare off the ground. I'll also take a couple training trips to Columbia in the intervening time to sort this out.

-Bruce

[Spangler]

So THAT's why I missed so many plates at 25 this year...It was the background, sight color, sight width, sun in my (open) eyes, dusty ground, bouncy mat combination...

And I was upset because I thought it was just me being stressed out about my gun jams and losing my ^&%%$^.

I feel much better now

not

[Spangler]

I'll also add that there is something MUCH harder than shooting at plates with that dark background. That's shooting them in the snow

Talk about having to fucus!

[PPGMD]

I'll also add that there is something MUCH harder than shooting at plates with that dark background. That's shooting them in the snow

Talk about having to fucus!

What is the snow thing you speak of?

[diehli]

I'll also add that there is something MUCH harder than shooting at plates with that dark background. That's shooting them in the snow

Talk about having to fucus!

What is the snow thing you speak of?

Frozen hurricanes.

[PPGMD]

I'll also add that there is something MUCH harder than shooting at plates with that dark background. That's shooting them in the snow

Talk about having to fucus!

What is the snow thing you speak of?

Frozen hurricanes.

It must be quite cold to get rum to freeze.

[diehli]

I'll also add that there is something MUCH harder than shooting at plates with that dark background. That's shooting them in the snow

Talk about having to fucus!

What is the snow thing you speak of?

Frozen hurricanes.

It must be quite cold to get rum to freeze.

Oh man... that reminds me of the 151 Hurricane frozen drink at the Coyote Ugly in New York New York in Las Vegas.

*drool* (and not just for the drink)

[Spangler]

complete results can be found...

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/Bianchi_12_Final.pdf

[BPiatt]

I think it was last year that they put shredded tires on the berm behind the plates to control water errosion.

Because it was very sunny this year and the trees are growing around that range, the shredded tires were in the shade and made it look very black. Naturally, the black iron sights were lost in the black background.

Exactly. What do you propose for a solution for next year, Bruce? I'm thinking green.

I brought it up with the President of Green Valley R&P and the NRA Staff. They are looking into painting the background.. Anything but black.

For the past 20 years in Open Division and ever since they allowed us to shoot both guns, I've never missed a plate. When the sun is on the backstop, it looks grey and isn't too bad. But when it's sunny and between 11am and 1pm, the background is in the shade of the trees and it turns BLACK. I painted my entire front sight red but visually lost my rear sight.

[staudacher]

Rob was shooting the 5.25 XDm, I think BJ was shooting a glock, Enoch an M&P.

Plates got a lot of people this year.

I think it was last year that they put shredded tires on the berm behind the plates to control water errosion.

Because it was very sunny this year and the trees are growing around that range, the shredded tires were in the shade and made it look very black. Naturally, the black iron sights were lost in the black background.

Exactly. What do you propose for a solution for next year, Bruce? I'm thinking green.

Bruce what about a stacked FO configuration?

[Toolguy]

I shoot fiber optic front and rear on my stock guns because of this type of situation. I have a "3 dot" type setup. You can use the dots to aim with at 10 yards or closer and get by, but they are not all that helpful for accurate longer shots. What I do is use the dots to keep track of the notch and post and aim with the black part as normal. If you simply can't see the black part of the sights at all, at least you have a fair chance of making the hit anyway. In times where I don't lose the black sights on the background between targets, I just ignore the dots and run with the notch and post. That gives you the precision for long shots and the visibility and sight tracking in low light conditions and dark backgrounds. You have to train yourself to think in these terms because it's easy to just use the dots only and call it good enough.

[gm iprod]

Plain black post and notch is the most accurate sight there is.

Any sight you can see is the most accurate you have.

[grayguns]

Since last year, I've given it a rest. I'm spooling up for the 2013 Cup now in earnest and am still at a bit of a loss on this sight business. Given my history in the match, I truly believe I can keep my nervous system in tune if I can see some alignment under the lighting conditions Bruce described. So I'm experimenting...-Bruce

[brentm]

metallic sights what a topic, to many things for a 1 stop answer

i think your own eyes make a big diffidence, so many people font have perfect sight and contacts or glasses setup make a real difference, so you need to understand whats effecting you, im lucky i have great eyes but i know alot who get their sight picture buggered up between standing and prone, strong sun or sun direction etc...

also arm length ive really long arms so tweaking the rear sight gap & font sight width to give you the perfect ratio - light blade light

and dominant eye when shooting prone and gun height prone...alot to sort out but these things make you so much more consistent

all that aside ive found for me a fiber helps me find and track the front sight, but i dont use it in the shooting sight picture im focusing on the bade being crisp esp at the long distances, saying that im not a top scoring metallic shooter yet so im still putting this into practice

[Service Desk]

Partridge front sight with a slight undercut, flat rear blade opened up so you can see the edges of the front sight in low light and plenty of carbide soot.

I took the serrations off the blade of an STI rear sight and it improved the sight picture heaps.

[brentm]

good description, never a bad thing to have something else to try