RePete68 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Did some searching about my issues & still have some questions. I have been getting a lot of double feeds lately & the occasional salt shaker in my 9mm Open gun. I have all STI mags with Grams 13 coil springs & followers, plastic Arredondo spacers(plus a couple with metal spacers) & Dawson base pads on the 140's & Bolen on the 170's. I also have the Dawson Mag Tuning kit & tuned all my own mags. Just put new springs in all my mags a month ago too. All my issues are with the 140mm mags. I assume the double feeding is a mag issue but let me describe whats happening. After the gun malfs, there is a unfired round in the chamber while the slide is trying to push another round up underneath the chambered round. I checked my feed lips & they are out of spec now. They were between .350 -.355. Now opened up to .360ish towards the front end of the mag. I think what is happening is when the slide comes back & ejects the spent case, a round prematurely pops out of the mag, then the slide comes forward striping another round from the mag causing the double feed. So is the "taper" of the feed lips too great now? Is this what is causing my double feeds? I may sound like I'm answering my own questions, but just want opinions of other experienced people / shooters. The only thing different from the norm with my mags is I run 13 coil Grams in all my 140mm mags. I still can get 22 reloadable & feel the extra spring tension gives my more reliability. Maybe this is the issue?! What do you think? Should I switch to 11 coil & why? When I get a salt shaker its usually after a reload. What is the best cure for salt shaker issues? Not put 22 rounds in the mags? Should I dremel / blend the bottom of the ribs inside the mag tubes? My Grams followers have the end modified so the slide doesn't lock back. Is this maybe what causes a round to get stuck next to the follower at the bottom of the mag under the ribs? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I don't think you're getting more reliability, do you? I'd try the 11 coil spring. Is the bottom of your slide dragging the feed lips? Not sure why the feed lips would speed like that. I use the same setup as you, except 11 coil. I get 23 rounds with no tuning, been reliable so far. In the big stick, same components except 13 coil with one cut off. 29 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Sorry I'm not one of the ultra experienced guys you are looking for but I get 22 reloadable and 23 non in my 140's with grams guts of the 11 coil variety. I reload to 22 all the time with 100% reliability. As far as I can tell my grams follower won't go low enough to flip? With the 170's I can get a tight 29 but I load to 28 because I'm new to Open and want reliability. Did the problems materialize after you changed springs last month? Try putting the old ones back in after fixing the feed lip spread and see what happens. I had too many experienced shooters tell me to go with 11's in the 140's and 13's in the 170's to try bucking the system. Maybe the feed lips got spread because of one particular misfeed and the strong springs just compounded the problem from there on out. Could oal be effecting anything? I would just start undoing anything that may have changed to see where you end up. I'll keep watching this so I can learn for myself in case I end up in your shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete68 Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 I put new springs at the beginning of the season & have been having problems ever since. I put in new 11 coil springs & adjusted the feed lips. Going to the range soon to test. My slide is not dragging my feed lips. Also my OAL is 1.15 with 121gr MG bullets. The other nite I was messing with the mags & I loaded 140 mag with 20 rounds & sparply hit the base of the mag against my palm causing it to go salt shaker. I took out all the loose rounds & the follower & one round were deffinately under the ribs. I reloaded the mag & tried it again to reproduce the problem, but couldn't get it to do it again. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) This isn't fixed yet. Need some more advice and suggestions. Any ideas people? This problem is a stumper. We have tried a lot of stuff and not winning because of malf's is no fun!! Edited to say: Mods, maybe this would get better exposure if it was in Open Guns or 1911 guns thread. Please move if so, thanks. Edited June 10, 2012 by Chris iliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 If it looks like the ribs are the problem, get an Arredondo insert to take the ribs out of the equation: http://www.arredondoaccessories.com/category.cfm?cid=1001,2013&PID=fc25l4900rdqps&GID=INS Dawson mods a Para insert to work with their extended Para pads in STI tubes: https://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=50B0002-1134161784 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete68 Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 UPDATE!! I have fixed my problem & it had nothing to do with the mags. I shoot a Bedell shorty 9mm. I had a new barrel put in at the beginning of the season. While Dan had my gun he did a few updates to bring it up to his current build specs. One of the things was to replace my recoil master with a standard guide rod & 9lb spring. Since i got it back this year I was having troubles occasionally. I thought it was the mags. The gun always ran good from new with the recoil master. For whatever reason I decided to take out the standard guide rod & 9lb spring & put the recoil master back in to try. I talked to Bedell about it & he thinks the gun was short stroking with the 9lb spring causing the double feeds. The recoil master is equal to about a 7lb spring. Now about 1500 rounds later still no problems. I did switch all my 140mm mags over to 11 coil Grams springs & only load those mags with 20 rounds now. I think with 21 - 22 rounds it was causing the follower to get stuck under the ribs at the bottom of the mag for whatever reason sometimes. Thanks for all the replies!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Awesome! Glad it's working now. FWIW, I also went back to the RM in my shorty and while I didn't have any reliability problems, it seems to "feel" better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTimm Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Quick question, I'm new to the 2011 9mm game, should I be happy with 20 rounds or are you getting 21-22 reliably or is it something I should seek? Sorry for the derail. It it seems you have a lot of experience with the 9mm mages. Mine are 140s. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Quick question, I'm new to the 2011 9mm game, should I be happy with 20 rounds or are you getting 21-22 reliably or is it something I should seek? Sorry for the derail. It it seems you have a lot of experience with the 9mm mages. Mine are 140s. Thanks! STI or SV? In a 140, you should be getting at least 22, I'm getting 24 in most of mine and 25 in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 all mine are a reloadable 23 with dawson base pads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace38super Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 If you load no more than 20 rounds in a 140 mag there should be no issues with rounds going below the ribs. If you are going to need anywhere near 20 rounds use a big stick. Several of the best open shooters I know use nothing but big sticks. Nothing worse than taking a few make up shots and wondering if you are going to finish the stage doing a standing reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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