Bob DuBois Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Looking at your picture I'd guess your a younger shooter and as with most funds are a little tight. If your shooting stock guns, Sig, Glock, M@P etc the square deal will work fine. The only draw back to the square deal is you are stuck with Dillon dies. Own a gun with a tight chamber, match barrel then the dies in the square deal won't cut it, you'll end up with a single stage press with a U die before you load on the square deal. I know two shooters doing this now. Losing the time saving loading on a progressive machine. Next up and the press I recommend if your budget is tight is the 550. With the 550 you can use other brands of dies along with items as collet bullet pullers as well as loading rifle calibers. Buy once use the machine for a lifetime as you add other guns to your collection you already have the press that will load for them with a die and shellplate purchase. I prefer Lee dies because the first stage sizes closer to the extractor groove, sizes tighter than most other brands and an excellent design on the primer punch. Ammo runs in pistols with match barrels with one pass through the press. The 550 can be mounted straight to the bench, mine has a roller handle. The 550 can quickly be changed to another caliber once your tool heads are set. 550 is a purchase you won't regret. Next up is the 650, great machine but really needs to be purchased with the case feeder, bullet tray, roller handle and strong mount. Quite an expense if your funds are tight. I loaded on two 550's for twenty five years before moving up to a loaded 650, wish I had done it sooner but still have my old friend the oldest 550 mounted and being used for 45acp and 30.06. As with most of the older shooters, started on a single stage press, they still have there place on hunting rifle ammo but there a waste of money and time for someone wanting to shoot action pistol competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I had a Lee single stage and two different Lee progressives. The progressives were a mechanical pain in the neck after loading fairly high volumes on them for a about a year, they just started crapping out, the primers didn't want to feed properly consistently, powder wasn't getting thrown consistently,,,,all kinds of problems that ended after a squib load incident. Those presses are biodegrading in a dump in Iowa, I wouldn't even give them away, too much trouble. Since then I've owned a SDB and a couple 550's. All of theme have ran great. I sold them as I got out of the game for a while, but the one 550 I kept is going back to Dillon for a refurb. NOT because of something that was defective or anything like that, it was due to my own fault. I stored it rather poorly and disassembled. During that time I moved twice, so I'm missing parts and have a little surface rust and such. So, all stuff that is 100% my fault, but I have no doubt when my press comes back it'll be 100% ready to rock and roll and give years more good reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkwatch Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Looking at your picture I'd guess your a younger shooter and as with most funds are a little tight. If your shooting stock guns, Sig, Glock, M@P etc the square deal will work fine. The only draw back to the square deal is you are stuck with Dillon dies. Own a gun with a tight chamber, match barrel then the dies in the square deal won't cut it, you'll end up with a single stage press with a U die before you load on the square deal. I know two shooters doing this now. Losing the time saving loading on a progressive machine. Next up and the press I recommend if your budget is tight is the 550. With the 550 you can use other brands of dies along with items as collet bullet pullers as well as loading rifle calibers. Buy once use the machine for a lifetime as you add other guns to your collection you already have the press that will load for them with a die and shellplate purchase. I prefer Lee dies because the first stage sizes closer to the extractor groove, sizes tighter than most other brands and an excellent design on the primer punch. Ammo runs in pistols with match barrels with one pass through the press. The 550 can be mounted straight to the bench, mine has a roller handle. The 550 can quickly be changed to another caliber once your tool heads are set. 550 is a purchase you won't regret. Next up is the 650, great machine but really needs to be purchased with the case feeder, bullet tray, roller handle and strong mount. Quite an expense if your funds are tight. I loaded on two 550's for twenty five years before moving up to a loaded 650, wish I had done it sooner but still have my old friend the oldest 550 mounted and being used for 45acp and 30.06. As with most of the older shooters, started on a single stage press, they still have there place on hunting rifle ammo but there a waste of money and time for someone wanting to shoot action pistol competition. Bob, a quick question for SDB. What type of gun consider match barrel tight fit? Will SDB work for stock STI edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I've seen stock STI guns that needed the U die in order for the gun to run in 40 S@W. You could also use one of the push through dies or a case pro but a U die in station one on a 550 or 650 will resize the case for an STI Pistol. I've seen STI guns that wouldn't run using Dillon dies loaded on a 550. Dillon dies have a larger case mouth so they run easier, faster but they don't size as close to the extractor groove as Lee's sizer or as tight. I have three pistols in 40 S@W one an Edge the other two are built guns with aftermarket barrels. Always shot range brass and found out about the Lee U die years back, it works great I've never had feeding issues since going to the U die, it's around $20 well worth the money. I believe a standard Lee die will solve most sizing problems in 9mm but in 40 the U die is the way to go. I load 40 S@W long at 1.220, feeds better and always lube cases. There are other methods to size brass, push through dies or case pro's but the U die will solve buldge problems with one trip through the press if you have a 550 or larger press. I have friends that load 9mm minor using a square deal. One has a STI gun the other has a pistol with a fitted Kart barrel. Both run their brass through a single stage press with a Lee U die before loading on a square deal in order to get the guns to run. If you already have a square deal you might try the U die on a single stage press if you have feeding issues or trade up to a 550 or larger press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sr20ve Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I've pretty much settled on something set around a single stage or a dillon 550b. Extra money for a turret is getting close enough to a 550 I'd just as soon step on up. I don't think I've seen a negative comment about a dillon anywhere. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD If you can swing the 550 then just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) I've pretty much settled on something set around a single stage or a dillon 550b. Extra money for a turret is getting close enough to a 550 I'd just as soon step on up. I don't think I've seen a negative comment about a dillon anywhere. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD If you can swing the 550 then just do it. +1 on the 550. Undersized die would eliminate the rest of the hassles of getting a good batch of ammo quickly and cheaply from range brass. EGW undersized die I justified the aquisition by considering the value of my time and where I want to spend it. With wife and at the range. DNH Edited June 13, 2012 by daves_not_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sroe3 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Great advice Bob. I understand the advantage of the 550/650 now. Never needed the U-die with my guns so the SDB works perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkwatch Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I've seen stock STI guns that needed the U die in order for the gun to run in 40 S@W. You could also use one of the push through dies or a case pro but a U die in station one on a 550 or 650 will resize the case for an STI Pistol. I've seen STI guns that wouldn't run using Dillon dies loaded on a 550. Dillon dies have a larger case mouth so they run easier, faster but they don't size as close to the extractor groove as Lee's sizer or as tight. I have three pistols in 40 S@W one an Edge the other two are built guns with aftermarket barrels. Always shot range brass and found out about the Lee U die years back, it works great I've never had feeding issues since going to the U die, it's around $20 well worth the money. I believe a standard Lee die will solve most sizing problems in 9mm but in 40 the U die is the way to go. I load 40 S@W long at 1.220, feeds better and always lube cases. There are other methods to size brass, push through dies or case pro's but the U die will solve buldge problems with one trip through the press if you have a 550 or larger press. I have friends that load 9mm minor using a square deal. One has a STI gun the other has a pistol with a fitted Kart barrel. Both run their brass through a single stage press with a Lee U die before loading on a square deal in order to get the guns to run. If you already have a square deal you might try the U die on a single stage press if you have feeding issues or trade up to a 550 or larger press. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sounder Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Tinkering with the 650 in the shed on a rainy night with some country tunes is a hobby itself. I find I want to shoot more so I can reload more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvedrick Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 2 cents.... how much ammo do you intend to load at a time? The more you shoot and reload, the more a progressive press starts to look like a good idea. I started off with a Lee classic press and at that time had used one of their progressive presses. After several years, and having used one of my friends, I got up the gumption to buy a 550. I will admit that if I am only loading 10 or 20 rifle rounds and hand measuring each load, the Lee is much quicker to change calibers. On the other hand loading pistol ammo is a major pain as it takes 17 distinct motions per round limiting the maximum to 200rd per hour and usually closer to 100. The 550 on the other hand does take longer to set up, but for pistol, once each station has a case,it only takes 6 motions per shell and with a little practice can be run at a rate that exceeds 600 rounds per hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangeman711 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Go with a Dillon from Brian, you can't go wrong. Brian will tell exactly what you need, no more, no less. Plus the Dillon No BS Guarantee is the best in the business. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mackey Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Go with a Dillon from Brian, you can't go wrong. Brian will tell exactly what you need, no more, no less. Plus the Dillon No BS Guarantee is the best in the business. Good luck. +1 i got a 550 after messing with a pro-gressive hornady (model prior to the lock n load) and have been happy ever since Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike l m Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Hey Guys, Have been using some old 450B's for the last 20-25 years and will not look back. NO B/S Warranty thru Dillion, some great folks there. Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfilbey Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I started 30 or so years ago with a RCBS Rock Chucker combo kit in .38-357. I still use the press today. The disadvantage of that press (or any single stage) is that it is slower than a progressive. for any efficiency you need to batch run your loading. As outlined before, you resize/deprime, prime, bell case mouth, charge, seat bullets, crimp. That is the whole operation. I still do it this way for small lots and rifle ammo. Lube: I use the spray lube now days Resize/deprime: SS press with a set of dies Prime: Lee Auto Prime Set Up powder measure I have the RCBS balance that came in the combo, just haven't gotten around to buying a digital yet. charge: RCBS Uniflow powder measure or Lee Perfect powder measure (place each charged case in a loading block) Install & adjust the bullet seating die Seat bullets (you will have to decide wether you want to seat and crimp in one operation, for what it's worth I did it for years and a lot of other perple did too). You're DONE! I have seen these combos used at a gun show for $75-$80 bucks. They usually looked like the devil. There are plenty of accessories people list as necessary but you can get by without most of them. The auto Prime will speed up the single stage operation more than any one thing short of going to a progressive. Basic start out kit (assuming you have a place to mount the press) Equipment: set dies & shell holder press powder scale loading block (tray) powder measure manual auto prime with Lee Auto Prime shell holder Supplies: spent brass lube primers powder bullets The above list will get you reloading. A good manual like Speers will tell you how to adjust everything. Use a light touch on adjustments and it will work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themissile Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Save up and start with the Dillon Square Deal in 9 mm. I agree! And if you decide it's not for you, you'll get most of your money back. Used Dillons sell rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARKAVELI Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hey Guys, Have been using some old 450B's for the last 20-25 years and will not look back. NO B/S Warranty thru Dillion, some great folks there. Thanks, Mike What's the old 450B's look like? I never seen one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) What's the old 450B's look like? I never seen one.. They're almost the same as the 550 - but the toolhead was integral to the frame. Dillion will convert 'em for a price. Some pictures here Mine was converted to 550 toolheads and still runs like a champ - though I only use it to reload .45 match ammo (bullseye) and for .40 load development. [Edited to fix spelng and to add Dillon link...] Edited June 23, 2012 by Less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike l m Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Dillion will charge about 100.00 to convert over. The only real difference is the 450B does not have the removeable tool head. Have to screw in each die. No big deal have been doing that for 20-25 years. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARKAVELI Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 i picked up a single stage a month ago and tried reloading on it and ahhhhh from my diagnosis,I DONT LIKE IT! i am happy with my RL550B i do use th single stage to deprime/resize 223/5.56 and resizing .40cal bulge busting with the GRX push die that works perfectly on a single stage..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I have friends that load 9mm minor using a square deal. One has a STI gun the other has a pistol with a fitted Kart barrel. Both run their brass through a single stage press with a Lee U die before loading on a square deal in order to get the guns to run. I've been loading 9mm minor and major for five years to fit thru my STI TruBor and Browning HP with a custom fit Barsto barrel - haven't had any problem feeding them as they come out of my Square Deal - I don't use a Lee U die, or anything else and they work perfectly - and this is with "range brass". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryYu Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) I'm looking to get started reloading. 9mm only for the immediate future. I'm just wondering if any of these is a good place to start. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/121744/lee-challenger-breech-lock-single-stage-press-kit http://www.midwayusa.com/product/161975/lee-load-master-progressive-press-kit-9mm-luger http://www.midwayusa.com/product/428284/lee-pro-1000-progressive-press-kit-9mm-luger I know there are nicer brands, I'm just looking for an affordable start as I decide if it's something I want to spend time doing and see if it saves that much on shooting, but I also don't want to buy junk. What else would be necessary to get started? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD The Lees will work, but you will spend hours and hours fiddling with the primer feed system due to its bad design. It's gravity fed and happens to be under the powder drop, so if for some reason you fail to seat a primer, because it didn't make it down to the priming station due to a speck of dust (really!) you will proceed to completely dump powder all into the insides of the press starting with the primer assembly. Then after you blow it out, it doesn't work quite as well as when it was clean. Get this malfunction a couple more times and you arn't feed any primers. Disassembly takes awhile and is a PITA. If you hand primer/deprime, the Pro 1000 will provide you with flawless service. But then it really wouldn't be a progressive press.. Caliber changes are annoying too, they tend to "settle" into one caliber and changing it causes the indexing to mess up until you adjust it. Also changing calibers is a 100% disassembly. I wound up buying two of them instead... I struggled with a pair of Lees for a year and clicking the "buy" button for a 550b was probably the best reloading decision I've made. Edited September 1, 2012 by TerryYu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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