Best powder for lead 220 gr bullets that's...

[Bill Schwab]

I LOVE S&S Casting's 220 gr lead bullet, but the powder I've been using for the past 50k rounds is no longer available in the US, and I'm almost out. Gone are my days of super competitiveness (new word!) so I'm not looking for the ragged-edge-of-safety fastest powder for these bullets, rather I was hoping for an economical and clean powder that's slow enough to allow for a decent margin of safety. I was thinking of IMR 7625, but would welcome a better option. Suggestions?

[Doc Hunter]

In .40 or 10mm? What pistol? What was your old powder? I hope your asking about a 10mm.

[Bill Schwab]

In .40 or 10mm? What pistol? What was your old powder? I hope your asking about a 10mm.

40 out of a Limited gun. My old powder was Russian Salut. I've had no safety issues at all, very low pressure load.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=52872

Edited March 25, 2012 by Bill Schwab

[Doc Hunter]

You are a braver man than I.

[Bill Schwab]

You are a braver man than I.

I had way more issues with pressure when shooting 175's and 180's with VV. In fact I've had zero pressure signs with the 220's, through a few different guns, and my brass lasts way longer. I don't think it has anything to do with bravery...

[jmbaccolyte]

What overall cartridge length are you using? And does your grease ring on the bullet show when loaded? Roughly where does this load strike the target (elevation) at 25 yards compared to say a 180 grain minor pf load? Sorry for all the questions.

PS: I hope you're grateful, I've never been a super-competitive shooter. Fair to middling is more like it for me. Lol.

[ranger]

This used to be a popular Limited load in 40. Should be data available.

[Bill Schwab]

What overall cartridge length are you using? And does your grease ring on the bullet show when loaded? Roughly where does this load strike the target (elevation) at 25 yards compared to say a 180 grain minor pf load?

1.135"

No, the grease ring is not visible.

You got me on the third question...it's been a long time since I've shot 180's.

[twodownzero]

I tried the 200s and didn't notice any difference. This thread makes me want to try the 220s now.

[GrumpyOne]

That bullet head has got to be LLLLLLOOOOONNNNGGGG!

[jmbaccolyte]

I asked about where the bullet strikes the target because I'm intrigued with the 220 grain bullet in the .40, but am worried that I may not have enough adjustment in my sights for the point of impact difference, because the bullet velocity would be a lot slower than I'm seeing now.

I asked about the O.A.L. because I'm running 1.250" overall cartridge length and I'm thinking that a 220 grain bullet may work well with the extra length. I'm currently using 155 grain lead bullets because I got a good deal on them, but the grease/lube groove is visible and they seem to smoke more than the same bullet and powder at 1.135" O.A.L., where the lube groove is inside the case.

I'm experimenting with the longer O.A.L. because my frame size (and magazine and distance to the rifling) allows it and the peak pressures tend to be lower with the longer O.A.L. at similar bullet velocities. Another way to look at it is making the best of a bad thing (large grip measured front to back).

But to answer your question, I haven't tried anything slower than WST in the .40, but while that powder may work at long O.A.L.s with heavy bullets, I would expect that the safety margin would be smaller at 1.135".

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: We have a couple of guys here using 220 grain lead bullets. They are using Winchester 231 or HP-38 Hodgdon. They are loading them to 1.180" OAL. in 6" pistols. They are going to try WSF next so I have been told. Thanks, Eric

[Bill Schwab]

Hello: We have a couple of guys here using 220 grain lead bullets. They are using Winchester 231 or HP-38 Hodgdon. They are loading them to 1.180" OAL. in 6" pistols. They are going to try WSF next so I have been told. Thanks, Eric

Good info, thanks. It seems odd to me that they're shifting to a slower powder...makes me wonder if they had pressure problems.

[al503]

I've loaded 220s with WST but I'm loading them at 1.245" Not sure if I would go with a faster powder like WST if I weren't loading very long. I see just the slightest bit of pressure from the SPPs.

[jmbaccolyte]

al503,

How much WST are you using with the 220 grain bullets at 1.245" OAL?

[al503]

How much WST are you using with the 220 grain bullets at 1.245" OAL?

4.1 grains, SPP, Rem brass: 170.4 PF

4.3 grains, SPP, Rem brass: 174.5 PF

I also tried TG and Solo but the WST was the most accurate by far. I'm glad I found a use for WST as I hate it in 9mm, which is what I bought it for.

[Bill Schwab]

I tried WST and like it....low SD's, very accurate and the powder is cheap. My load is 3.9 grains of WST loaded to 1.135", S&S 220, WSR primer. Launched out of a Schuemann 5" barrel it's giving me 172 PF. Thanks for the help.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Bill Schwab

[Bshooter]

I have shot a lot of S&S 220 out of my limited gun using 3.8grs of WST loaded to 1.220.

[steviesterno]

Is anybody here trying to push a 220gn with Clays? I don't have a book handy, but since I use 3.8gn Clays to push a 230 gn 45 (1.25 OAL or so) to major, it would make sense, wouldn't it?

[Croomrider]

Is anybody here trying to push a 220gn with Clays? I don't have a book handy, but since I use 3.8gn Clays to push a 230 gn 45 (1.25 OAL or so) to major, it would make sense, wouldn't it?

No, your logic is flawed. In terms of sectional density the 230gr bullet in 45 cal is about the same as a 180gr bullet in 40 cal. Most folks think clays is dangerous making major in a 40 period. I personally would really worry about trying to do so with 220gr bullets. However, that does not mean some will not do it, and may claim it's safe.

Mike

[steviesterno]

Croomrider,

Thanks for the head's up. That makes sense, and I know not to use clays at high pressure. I use it for 9 and 40 minor, and 45 major. I'm new to reloading and I'd never try something like that without working it up. Appreciate the education on cross section! I didn't think of that, was just thinking about weight.

[Croomrider]

Croomrider,

Thanks for the head's up. That makes sense, and I know not to use clays at high pressure. I use it for 9 and 40 minor, and 45 major. I'm new to reloading and I'd never try something like that without working it up. Appreciate the education on cross section! I didn't think of that, was just thinking about weight.

No problem! One of the reasons Clays is good for major in a 45 is that the heavier bullet at the same sectional density doesn't need as much speed to meet the power factor. In a 40cal with a bullet of similar sectional density (180gn) you would need to push it faster thus raising the pressure to meet the same power factor.

Mike

Edited May 17, 2012 by Croomrider

[Dave C]

I had good luck running 3.1 grains of Ramshot Competition under a 220 grain. I was loading to an OAL of 1.135 and was getting 740 fps.

[Bshooter]

Dave C, I really don't like to load that heavy a bullet that short (1.135). I like the idea of using Ramshot Competition but would load them out for my single stack and limited gun. The rule of thumb is to load them out the the weight of the bullet. 180gr=1.180 200gr=1.200 220gr=1.220 You get the idea. This applies to major power factor. I have never shot this heavy a bullet in my XD tactical but the 140gr and 175gr I have.

Would I have to increase the powder much if I loaded them longer?

[al503]

Would I have to increase the powder much if I loaded them longer?

Depends on how much longer but, yes.

If you place a 220 grain bullet next to the case and look at how much room is left in the case when seated on the shorter side, you'll want to load as long as your mags and bbl let you.