ron59 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Title says it all. I realize this is an external mod, so I'm *thinking* the answer is no... but hey, if they allow STIPPLING... So, can I undercut the trigger guard slightly on my Glock? I hate that it's down so low and so squared off. Doesn't fit my hand as well as I'd like. I can certainly live with it, but a little undercut would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Sorry no. APPENDIX D4 — Production Division (Contd.) — UNLESS a modification is SPECIFICALLY authorized in the rules or SPECIFICALLY authorized in an official, published NROI interpretation, it is considered a PROHIBITED MODIFICATION. 22.2 Grips – any addition or removal of material which changes the factory profile or adds function such as beavertail or thumb rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron59 Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 There is also a limit on where you can stipple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 There is also a limit on where you can stipple Indeed, and it has likely rendered many a home-stippled gun unfit for Production. The diagram in Appendix E4 is pretty helpful in this regard, if a bit vague at times. My friend who does all of my stippling errs on the side of caution based on those graphics, and I've never had an issue of the guns not being stippled "enough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I wish it were. It offers no competitive advantage and only makes your gun that much more comfortable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm not quite convinced by the "no competitive advantage" assertion. I thought that the it was generally accepted that the closer the grip is to the bore axis, the better it is for recoil management. Doesn't an undercut trigger guard let one get a higher grip, and therefore get closer to the bore axis? Or if the bore axis grip relationship theory holds no water, what about the idea of a more comfortable grip. If a more comfortable grip offers no competitive advantage, shooters with small hands are at no disadvantage shooting a full size HK USP, and shooters with huge hands should be at no disadvantage shooting a compact Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) Wow, by like 1/16"? Huge advantage I guess, especially with my SIG! Comfort is one thing, workable ergonomics are another... Edited March 11, 2012 by DonovanM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 1/16" is more than the difference between 9mm scored minor, and .40 scored major. 1/16" over 140mm will push a shooter from shooting Limited to shooting Open. But that's neither here nor there on the topic of grip position. I don't know enough of the applied physics behind it, but I believe somebody can compute and graph the lever action forces applied when a gun is fired vs different fulcrum points. That would probably answer definitively whether 1/16" up or down makes a difference. Any which way, though, hope to see you Sunday. You've been shooting great over the past few months, keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 In my eyes a proper fitting grip is a safety issue first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobert1 Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 If the grip isn't working for you, than maybe the gun isn't right for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The 1/16" isn't the way in which the advantage is measured. It's the completely different grip angle that's achieved as a result that truly effects the recoil-- which can be an exponential leap that vastly exceeds the actual size of "such a little adjustment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonovanM Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The 1/16" isn't the way in which the advantage is measured. It's the completely different grip angle that's achieved as a result that truly effects the recoil-- which can be an exponential leap that vastly exceeds the actual size of "such a little adjustment". Maybe we should handicap the times of people with Glocks. You know, because the grip angle offers such an exponential leap in performance. In reality, as opposed to this theoretical fairy land oft explored in great detail on the internet, there are only so many ways equipment will actually be of any measurable help to a shooter... red dots, magwells, etc. Small things like removing material from the grip or even installing similar-to-stock magazine releases and slide stops will never be any of them. I don't think it's stupid not to allow it or anything, because it's a stock gun division. I get the spirit of the division. If it were up to me though, I'd relax the rules regarding these little inconsequential things a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunguru Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yes, a change may appear so tiny than it's barely noticeable in performance. But the problem to allow some minor changes like this is always the same, where does it end? - Hey it's just a smooting of trigger Guard checkering... - Hey it's just a sqarring of Trigger guard - Hey it's just a rubber grip - Hey it's just a ergonomic grip - Hey it's just a slide racker and a comp... For production, rules need to be clear and direct, no mods to the gun. It's the essence of production gun. If the gun doesn't fit to the hand, maybe it's a good idea to test other pistol prior to start modifiyng the existing one. I realy like the Glock, I like the look, the reliability and everything, but Glock doesn't fit in my hand, the grip angle is uncomfortable to me. So I tried other guns, and finaly the Tanfoglio / CZ fits perfect, as the 1911. So too bad for the glock, I prefer a nice feeling than a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yes, a change may appear so tiny than it's barely noticeable in performance. But the problem to allow some minor changes like this is always the same, where does it end? - Hey it's just a smooting of trigger Guard checkering... - Hey it's just a sqarring of Trigger guard - Hey it's just a rubber grip - Hey it's just a ergonomic grip - Hey it's just a slide racker and a comp... For production, rules need to be clear and direct, no mods to the gun. It's the essence of production gun. If the gun doesn't fit to the hand, maybe it's a good idea to test other pistol prior to start modifiyng the existing one. I realy like the Glock, I like the look, the reliability and everything, but Glock doesn't fit in my hand, the grip angle is uncomfortable to me. So I tried other guns, and finaly the Tanfoglio / CZ fits perfect, as the 1911. So too bad for the glock, I prefer a nice feeling than a look. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin-ster Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Maybe we should handicap the times of people with Glocks. You know, because the grip angle offers such an exponential leap in performance.In reality, as opposed to this theoretical fairy land oft explored in great detail on the internet, there are only so many ways equipment will actually be of any measurable help to a shooter... red dots, magwells, etc. Small things like removing material from the grip or even installing similar-to-stock magazine releases and slide stops will never be any of them. I don't think it's stupid not to allow it or anything, because it's a stock gun division. I get the spirit of the division. If it were up to me though, I'd relax the rules regarding these little inconsequential things a bit. Is it not that grip angle that leads so many people to choose that platform? Or the same concept, but applied to the M&P? I guess we all favor the ergos of one pistol over another simply because it "feels right"? Looks better? I can't say that I'm an expert on bio-mechanics, physics or ergonomic designs-- but I can say for sure that I've shot a stock G17 back-to-back with one with a very mild undercut to the trigger guard, and the difference in the sight tracking was obvious. Was it 1/16"? I can't say for sure. But how do you enforce that as a minimum? And if it's such a nominal modification, why bother in the first place? If 1/16" isn't an advantage, is it really enough to make the gun feel better in the shooter's hands? Every tiny bit of leverage we can get over the bore axis is an advantage. Otherwise, we wouldn't pay so much attention to the technique of the grip in the first place; "that's good enough" would be the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes777 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Yes, a change may appear so tiny than it's barely noticeable in performance. But the problem to allow some minor changes like this is always the same, where does it end?- Hey it's just a smooting of trigger Guard checkering... - Hey it's just a sqarring of Trigger guard- Hey it's just a rubber grip- Hey it's just a ergonomic grip- Hey it's just a slide racker and a comp...For production, rules need to be clear and direct, no mods to the gun. It's the essence of production gun.If the gun doesn't fit to the hand, maybe it's a good idea to test other pistol prior to start modifiyng the existing one. I realy like the Glock, I like the look, the reliability and everything, but Glock doesn't fit in my hand, the grip angle is uncomfortable to me. So I tried other guns, and finaly the Tanfoglio / CZ fits perfect, as the 1911. So too bad for the glock, I prefer a nice feeling than a look.Spot on. Ah the slippery slope argument, you make a good case. And I got a good chuckle at the angle of that slope from your ergo grip to the comp. Well played sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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