2012 FNH USA 3 Gun

[Azzy]

This was my first time working or attending such a large event, and I have to say it was an awesome experience. I was an RO on Stage 1, running the timer for a good number of shooters (Crazy Beard Guy as I was referred as). Thanks to all the competitors for being great sportsmen, and for putting on your best each run.

some time this week I'll be rested up again.. averaged 5 miles of running with shooters each day, and some of you guys and ladies are quick!

[Carbon]

A big thanks to Larry and his crew. I haven't seen such well trained and helpful RO's in quite a while. You could tell that there was a lot of thought put into the stages and the scheduling of the match. I really liked all the side matches and the chance to try out so many FN guns.

Truly a first class match, thank you all that put this event on. I had a great time and will be back.

Carl Carbon

[latewatch]

Just wanted to add my thanks to all who put in the effort to make this match happen. +1 to what everyone has said about the 1/2 day format. It's nice to have some time to socialize, shoot side matches, and even take in some of the local sights.

Unfortunately I was only able to get through 6 stages before an injury flared up and I didn't think the RO's would appreciate me shootin' after the pain meds kicked in so i had to bow out. All things considered, I still had a great time.

[Shooter115]

This match had a lot of different options for shooting stuff. You started every stage with all 3 guns set up. We saw some DQs for people knocking guns out of holsters (none in the chamber but still a DQ after "make Ready") and other chances to break the 180 if you slipped. We also had the usual safety problems of people abandoning guns not on safe (which happens especially when people try to dump a shotgun or rifle too fast). Many stages allowed you to stage or drop a gun into a number of different barrels, but never have 2 guns in the same one. I heard a few instances of that happening, as well. It's actually a pretty small number of DQs when you think about how much is going on, the level of the match, and the fact that this was some people's first real 3gun match.

Thanks for the clarification Steve. I've only been to one major which was the CMMG Midwest Championships earlier this year and will be going to Blue Ridge in a few weeks. I think they only had one DQ at the Midwest, which was as you mentioned a gun coming free of it's holster. Shooter was on my squad and it was just kind of a freak deal, he took of running and the butt of his rifle caught the pistol just right and sent it flying. Hence my decision to ditch my Stingray and go to a holster with positive retention for 3-gun.

[jmfs21]

a

Edited September 25, 2012 by jmfs21

[Solscud007]

I know the logistics do not allow it, but as an RO shooting all 9 stages in one day is rather taxing. Also the competitors get the HUGE benefit of seeing other shooters shoot the stages. By having a half day format they can plan and prepare for a LOT more than the ROs could when we ran the courses cold. I dont see many solutions for the disadvantage but running 9 stages in one day could be trimmed down to half and half. But that would require two days of just the ROs shooting.

I had a blast staffing stage 1. Although the bugs were annoying and the 4 ft black snake was a surprise for some, the shade was a god send. It was great to see the gear and guns that the pros use.

[wmounts]

The snake was a bonus target, 10 seconds off of stage time, use any weapon... :-)

I was an RO on Stage 5; wonderfully fun match, but I'm really tired.

I agree with the idea of 1/2 days for ROs also. That would have made shooting the match much more manageable.

From a pseudo-insider's perspective, this was a very well organized and run event.

[Solscud007]

Here is my run on stage 1. I used two GoPro cameras, a Flip HD and a HD Kodak Easyshare pocket camera.

[mikegot38]

There were more DQ's then you would traditionally see at most match's, from a percentage base. The rules need to be tweaked a bit for next season IMO, dumping 2 completely empty guns into 1 tube should never be a match DQ that is just plain overkill.

That is to prevent an abandoned gun going into a barrel with a gun with shells in the tube or rounds in a mag. I have no problem with it. It was clearlt stated in the rules.

Adjusting your safety rules to allow 1 group of people to break safety rules and not another is also a bad thing "full magazines in 2011 type pistols with no safety on in a dump tube" was allowed because 2 many people did it.

Not correct. 2011 pistols had to either have safety on or mag out and chamber empty.

Allowing shooters to be "coached" so they didnt leave any targets standing with no penalties to the shooter recieving the help.

Not sure how to respond as I ran past all 5 pistol targets on stage 8 and my whole squad said nothing.

But on a side note the R.O.'s did a GREAT job running the match and this shooter greatly appreciates what you guys do. And as a whole the match and stage designs were awesome.

I agree. Great bunch of RO's \, stages and entire staff.

As for Larry, I think it best you dont shoot the day of your own match and just spend time running it, you did a great job setting it up and getting it together, I think it could of been even better with your full attention all 3 days.

How could it have been better? That is why there was a Range Master for each area and a CRO and many ROs for each stage. I have shot Larrys matches for years and he does not need to babysit either his match or his staff.

Edited September 24, 2012 by mikegot38

[Solscud007]

Here is my stage 5

[Dan Sierpina]

How could it have been better? That is why there was a CRO for each area and a Range Master. I have shot Larrys matches for years and he does not need to babysit either his match or his staff.[/b]

There were 3 range masters, one each for stages 1-3, 4-6, and 7-9.

[mikegot38]

How could it have been better? That is why there was a CRO for each area and a Range Master. I have shot Larrys matches for years and he does not need to babysit either his match or his staff.[/b]

There were 3 range masters, one each for stages 1-3, 4-6, and 7-9.

Thanks Dan. Corrected in original.

[jmfs21]

s

Edited September 25, 2012 by jmfs21

[Solscud007]

stage 3 allowed full magazines inserted into guns that were not on safe, it happened with 3 people on my squad, on that same stage another shooter who placed in the top was told he had left 5 papers standing from another shooter and was allowed to keep shooting until he was finished. my point is, this was a really good match, it just needed a little bit of consistency in the rule book. And if you have offense's that can get you DQ'd that arent common practice anywhere else in the shooting industry they should be in the "written" rules not just mentioned between R.O.'s

I hear a lot of whining. Be safe that is the utmost importance. Sadly some take it more seriously than others. You can stage a gun loaded with chamber empty and safety off. However the rules and staff meeting clearly made it a point that dumping a gun can only be in two conditions. Safety on or completely empty. Pretty simple rules to follow.

[sdm74]

stage 3 allowed full magazines inserted into guns that were not on safe, it happened with 3 people on my squad, on that same stage another shooter who placed in the top was told he had left 5 papers standing from another shooter and was allowed to keep shooting until he was finished. my point is, this was a really good match, it just needed a little bit of consistency in the rule book. And if you have offense's that can get you DQ'd that arent common practice anywhere else in the shooting industry they should be in the "written" rules not just mentioned between R.O.'s

I hear a lot of whining. Be safe that is the utmost importance. Sadly some take it more seriously than others. You can stage a gun loaded with chamber empty and safety off. However the rules and staff meeting clearly made it a point that dumping a gun can only be in two conditions. Safety on or completely empty. Pretty simple rules to follow.

That about sums it up right there. Going faster then your skill level allows, and you will end up doing something unsafe. What I have found out getting into three gun is your three times as likely to screw something up.

[Lead-Head]

Just wanted to add my thanks to all who put in the effort to make this match happen. +1 to what everyone has said about the 1/2 day format. It's nice to have some time to socialize, shoot side matches, and even take in some of the local sights.

Unfortunately I was only able to get through 6 stages before an injury flared up and I didn't think the RO's would appreciate me shootin' after the pain meds kicked in so i had to bow out. All things considered, I still had a great time.

Considering the pain you were in, only shooting 6 stages and still finishing top of bottom third...I think you should have been DQed for being such a badass.

[jmfs21]

s

Edited September 25, 2012 by jmfs21

[Gaoler]

Who do I thank for the great weather..?

All in all a great match... There are bound to be a few hiccups at any event as large and involved as this.

Trick is to learn and move on to the next one.

The greatest improvement in this years event over 2011's is my opinion was... The banquet venue. BOOK THAT PLACE AGAIN FOR NEXT YEAR!!!

Thanks to the guys on sq. 14... Old friends and new

'See some of you next month at Rockcastle

[DyNo!]

"How could it have been better?"

The PROAM proved that you could give away free beer out of a gigantic trailer - and there would still be someone on the internet who wasn't satisfied.

Kudos to the staff for putting on a fun match - I enjoyed the stages and I will be back as long as they continue to be this awesome!

[poortrader]

stage 3 allowed full magazines inserted into guns that were not on safe, it happened with 3 people on my squad, on that same stage another shooter who placed in the top was told he had left 5 papers standing from another shooter and was allowed to keep shooting until he was finished. my point is, this was a really good match, it just needed a little bit of consistency in the rule book. And if you have offense's that can get you DQ'd that arent common practice anywhere else in the shooting industry they should be in the "written" rules not just mentioned between R.O.'s

No shooter should have had a magazine inserted in their rifle for stage 3:

"GUN READY CONDITION: Shotgun chamber empty and

staged (if starting with pistol) or loaded at low ready (if starting

with shotgun. Pistol, magazine inserted on empty chamber &

holstered, rifle empty no magazine inserted, bolt closed."

[Blaster]

Larry I was really impressed at shooters meeting with your stress for safety,all firearms flagged, plus providing the flags.As for DQs I saw Squad 7 on stage 7 2ed shooter have a AD and get DQed On stage 8 I saw one shooter(LEO) reholster a hot pistol and being told by RO to put it in bucket and no DQ. Blaster

[sbmd]

stage 3 allowed full magazines inserted into guns that were not on safe, it happened with 3 people on my squad, on that same stage another shooter who placed in the top was told he had left 5 papers standing from another shooter and was allowed to keep shooting until he was finished. my point is, this was a really good match, it just needed a little bit of consistency in the rule book. And if you have offense's that can get you DQ'd that arent common practice anywhere else in the shooting industry they should be in the "written" rules not just mentioned between R.O.'s

Let me start with this one. I never in my set up considered someone putting a single action gun into a bucket without ever racking the slide, hence there was no way to put it on safe. We made a decision since we set the shooter up for failure for doing this, we did not DQ anyone for this action. We will change it for the next year that the single action guns must be hammer cocked with safety on so that would solve the potentional action coming into dispute.

im not whining. 2 "empty" guns in 1 bucket is not unsafe... and to say that having 2 guns loaded or unloaded i a dump tube would be calling most other match directors and match's unsafe. No other match DQ's for 2 empty guns in 1 dump tube. there is NO safety violations with this. the loaded mags on stage 3 were not staged guns they were holstered guns that were dumped with mags loaded off of safe.

The property owner is very safety concious. We decided this at the RO meeting due to the potential safety aspect that a firearm having a round in the chamber not on safe could come in contact with another firearm in the same barrel during the grounding action could manipulate the trigger thus causing an unintentional discharge. This was done merely for this aspect and no one can be 100% sure that a firearm has no rounds in it. I have seen people think the gun was empty not put it on safe to later find out there is a round sitting on the lifter with the bolt locked open.

I will do a rewrite of the rules but I will not turn our rules into the 100 pages like the USPSA rule book. I can rule you to death. If you like the fact there are not a lot of rules keeping shooting the match. If you want more rules, shoot USPSA!

Larry

[jmfs21]

s

Edited September 25, 2012 by jmfs21

[jdknotts1]

Rules are rules. Sometimes I don't like them, or wonder what the hell they were thinking, but they are rules. I liked most all of the stages. I didn't like how pistol was basically taken out of the mix. Yes there were choices, but the pistol was rarely the most logical of the choices.

Before I say this, I will start off by saying most of the stages were ran very well by the RO's. But,,,,,, I hear way too many RO's on here saying this was their FIRST BIG MATCH and FIRST TIME AS AN RO. I am new to the sport myself but at my experience level I would NEVER try to RO. So many people pay great money to go to these matches to have someone thats never done this before make decisions that could make or break someone's experience in the sport.

[poortrader]

sorry i forgot how specific you had to be on forums. i assumed people would of read my posts a few posts back, the loaded magazines were in the 2011 type pistols at the begining of stage 3 . they were allowed to be discarded with full magazines into the dump tube with loaded mags off safety. Of course i am upset as i was DQ'd on stage 7 for discarding a empty shotgun into a tube with an emtpy rifle. i had 2k invested into the match for fees, hotel, gas, ammo, week off work, etc. i felt i deserved a bit more consideration for something that isnt even a procedural at 90% of any other national match.

I was also DQ for on Stage 7 for dumping an empty shotgun into a barrel with an unloaded rifle. Don't feel bad, you weren't alone.