Joe L Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 It looks like if I bought a CZ75 Shadow T DA/SA I could shoot it in ESP and in SSP, and that if I got a CZ75 Shadow T in SAO I would be limited to ESP. I can't use an SP-01 in either because of the full length dust cover. Question 1--Can a DA/SO gun be switched between DA/SA and SAO by simply swapping out a few ignition parts? If so, I could go ahead and get a DA/SO gun and spend some time with it then decide if I want to even try SAO. I am very comfortable shooting DA/SA with my SIG P226 guns in ESP/SSP and don't really have a need to go to SAO but I may want to experiment. Question 2--Is the reset in SA mode different between the DA/SA hardware and the SAO hardware? It looks like most people get the DA/SA but I wasn't sure why unless it is to use the gun in a particular game. What is the most common reason for getting the SAO version? I can only shoot IDPA locally, if that makes any difference. Thanks for any input. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 #1. Yes. Just change the trigger itself, the one that hangs down. The SAO triggers come with pretravel and overtravel adjustments. #2. No. The only thing that changes is that there is less pretravel since the trigger no longer goes all the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I specifically got da/sa models, since I also carry mine, and I prefer da to cocked and locked for carry. There's no reason you have to use the D/A mode if you don't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Joe you have me a little confused. You can use the Shadow T in SSP OR ESP... and in ESP you can start in SA mode with the safeties engaged. Matter of fact I'm pretty sure you can also use the full dust cover in SSP but not ESP- which would would require DA start... you would need to "lean" out the gun to make weight but I understand it can be done. I just picked up a Shadow T and like it so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 What Squirrls said. P.S.: There are Pro's and Con's to either... If you don't mind shooting only ESP, an SAO Shadow trigger is amazing as you can dial out pretty much all of the take-up slack and then you get to enjoy the same trigger-goodness as those who've got CTS's, you'll end up running a trigger every bit as good (or probably better) then the very best 9mm 1911's hanging in ESP, except the CZ's tend to be about 100x more reliable than any 9mm 1911... That said, you'll lose the ability to also run it in SSP where once in SA the Shadow's trigger is a huge advantage over just about anything else that can play there... I leave mine DA/SA so I can shoot either/both ESP and SSP and try to shoot both divisions/classes whenever I get the chance without changing a thing other than my first pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Joe you have me a little confused. You can use the Shadow T in SSP OR ESP... and in ESP you can start in SA mode with the safeties engaged. Matter of fact I'm pretty sure you can also use the full dust cover in SSP but not ESP- which would would require DA start... you would need to "lean" out the gun to make weight but I understand it can be done. Lugnut-did you get an SP-01 long dust cover version? I'll check the rules on the dust covers. I assumed the SP-01 was out for anything in IDPA. Based on the responses above, looks like I need a CZ-75 DA/SA Shadow T 9mm and then just get the SAO trigger to use if I want to try SAO. Thanks to everyone that replied. I appreciate your thoughts and recommendations. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Joe you have me a little confused. You can use the Shadow T in SSP OR ESP... and in ESP you can start in SA mode with the safeties engaged. Matter of fact I'm pretty sure you can also use the full dust cover in SSP but not ESP- which would would require DA start... you would need to "lean" out the gun to make weight but I understand it can be done. Lugnut-did you get an SP-01 long dust cover version? I'll check the rules on the dust covers. I assumed the SP-01 was out for anything in IDPA. Based on the responses above, looks like I need a CZ-75 DA/SA Shadow T 9mm and then just get the SAO trigger to use if I want to try SAO. Thanks to everyone that replied. I appreciate your thoughts and recommendations. Joe SP01 or Shadows can shoot in SSP if they make weight. IF they make weight anything SSP legal is therefore ESP legal. You don't need to get a SAO trigger, you can use the gun in SA in ESP. Just rack the slide and apply the safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 when you are ready to dial in an SAO trigger, pm me your phone and i'll walk you through it... there's a couple common mistakes i wouldn't want anyone to make, and it's easier on the phone than online. in short, too little over-travel can have the hammer hooks slap the sear on the way down when the sear doesn't rise high enough, that could lead to hammer follow. in addition, too little pre-travel can result in reset problems. you'll also need some blue loctite as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Thanks for the offer on helping with the SAO adjustments. I'll take you up on it for sure. Since I shoot SIGs, I posted a question on the SIG Forum about people's experiences with the CZ75 guns. I got 3 pages of responses in 2 days, all very positive! That was quite a pleasant surprise to me. The most interesting comment to me was that "a CZ75 is 100x more reliable for competition than any 9mm 1911". Kind of like a SIG. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 my CZ runs great. i might even clean it for the first time since october 2010 while i am changing out the springs next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The most interesting comment to me was that "a CZ75 is 100x more reliable for competition than any 9mm 1911". Kind of like a SIG. Joe I always find that statement kind of funny. A 1911 was designed around the .45 acp cartridge, not a short 9mm. The CZ/Glock/Beretta/MP ect. where designed around the 9mm first then the similar sized .40. A tuned 9mm 1911 can run great but it won't ever be as reliable as a gun that is designed for a particular round. With that said, CZs are fun and feel just like my 1911s in my hand its why I like them so much. That and the fact that CZ took Browning's high power and designed the 75 around it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So if you can use a shadow full length dust cover in ESP why can an EAA Stock II not be used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So if you can use a shadow full length dust cover in ESP why can an EAA Stock II not be used? Is it SSP legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Mine wouldn't be because of the sao conversion and magwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Mine wouldn't be because of the sao conversion and magwell. So is that a no for all models then? For the full dustcover loop hole to work it has to be SSP legal. Which means as a all steel gun it has to make weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Oh I see lol actually Corey I dunno the answer to that. I'll have to do some research. It's full length dust cover but only 4.5" barrel and aluminum grips and mag well prob have it pushed over the weight limit. I dunno though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 My FGW Trojan will make for a nice ESP gun but he's just now starting on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Web info on Stock II claims 33oz....either way IDPA gripes my butt with all the rules on guns. I think if it isn't weighted by aftermarket means or if it ain't ported and has not optical sight then you should be able to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So if you can use a shadow full length dust cover in ESP why can an EAA Stock II not be used? Ok- I'd have to reread the rule book... however I'm pretty sure full dustcover is not allowed in ESP but is in SSP. Not sure why but that's that way it is IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The full-dustcover/railed Shadows can are just fine in IDPA IF you can get one light enough, which isn't real easy to do, usually it takes having to use the plastic factory grips and expensive 10rd mags, but a lot of times you've got to fiddle with swapping out other small-parts too. IMHO it's a PITA, but if that's what you want it can be done, the adjustable-rear models make it easier as they're lighter from the start. My comment on the CZ's being far more reliable than the 9mm 1911's comes from lots of experience and spending lots of $$$ finding out the hard way... As mentioned, it's the shorter OAL of 9mm that really is the problem, it's exactly right that the guns "born" in 9mm just work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KPIC24 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I have shot a sp-01 shadow for 2 years in esp(you can make weight in ssp)it is a great gun and got me from MM-EX almost Master. But I have wanted to try something a little different for a while so I ordered an 75 shadow sao from Angus it will be here tomorrow and can't wait to shoot it. Really looking forward to shooting a new gun, it been a while. I stuck with the same gun for 2 years instead of chasing guns (I think it was a good choice but ready to play with something new)I really like ESP but it limits what I can do with the sp-01 but it will be a back up and I still can shoot it in ssp and Production in USPSA. Will give updates after I get the new gun Edited February 16, 2012 by KPIC24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForceLizard Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 So if you can use a shadow full length dust cover in ESP why can an EAA Stock II not be used? EAA catalog says cone barrel. If it's a 4.5" bull barrel that's out in IDPA. Cone style bushingless barrels must be 4.2" or less for ESP. The CZ has the bushing integrated on the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Thread drift! But in this case its welcomed and appreciated. Can't help but learn something here. Thanks Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have shot a sp-01 shadow for 2 years in esp(you can make weight in ssp)it is a great gun and got me from MM-EX almost Master. But I have wanted to try something a little different for a while so I ordered an 75 shadow sao from Angus it will be here tomorrow and can't wait to shoot it. Really looking forward to shooting a new gun, it been a while. I stuck with the same gun for 2 years instead of chasing guns (I think it was a good choice but ready to play with something new)I really like ESP but it limits what I can do with the sp-01 but it will be a back up and I still can shoot it in ssp and Production in USPSA. Will give updates after I get the new gun Can't wait to hear the comparison between the SP-01 Shadow and the short dust cover version. I didn't even consider the SP-01 version for IDPA, even for ESP only. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe L Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm done researching. I'm going to get a CZ75 Shadow T DA/SA and not look back. Thanks everyone. This is fun. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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