Nuke8401 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I worked the long range am stage. There were MGM flashers at 140 to about 200, and a great big steel plate at about 240. (MGM flasher is 10" wide x 15" tall)There was also a MGM loli-pop at about 50 yards. I blew the entire match on that stage. -First stage of the day. -The sun was in my eyes. -My front sight clamp screw had backed out and was touching the stupid prop on the back of the car throwing off my shots. -Can't think of anything else right now but I'm sure I had other excuses at the time. At least when I was done crashing Bryan pointed out my loose front sight problem. Pro next year, can't wait. David E. Edited January 13, 2012 by Nuke8401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you want to shoot pro you need to be sitting on go when registration opens. I do not think AM ever filled last year. It has never been clear to me why anyone needs to do registration in this manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you want to shoot pro you need to be sitting on go when registration opens. I do not think AM ever filled last year. It has never been clear to me why anyone needs to do registration in this manner. Sounds like a whole other topic but I would like to hear your thoughts as it is a bit of a problem that is only going to get worse as the sport grows in popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no body Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I didn't sign up until May last year and got in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterready Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Not certain that will be the case this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you want to shoot pro you need to be sitting on go when registration opens. I do not think AM ever filled last year. It has never been clear to me why anyone needs to do registration in this manner. That supprises me. I hope to shoot open am. Maybe I could shoot pro and be a bottem dweller but I also would like to get home Sunday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zukeep Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Some have suggested that all returning shooters get an automatic invitation for the 2nd annual. Others argue that it is not fair to those who couldn't make last year due to schedule conflicts. An alternative would be to give an automatic bid to the top 75 ( or pick a number) finishers from each Pro and Am. May or may not be fair to do for 2012, but would sure give this year's shooters an added bonus/incentive. Just an idea. Either way, this AM (in last year's top 75. :-)). Will have a finger on the mouse at midnight. Can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 So does anyone have info on registration? Several are posting like they know something, but I didn't see any hard data in the thread. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterready Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Keep watching. I'm sure there will be info soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you want to shoot pro you need to be sitting on go when registration opens. I do not think AM ever filled last year. It has never been clear to me why anyone needs to do registration in this manner. Sounds like a whole other topic but I would like to hear your thoughts as it is a bit of a problem that is only going to get worse as the sport grows in popularity. I just fail to see the need for stressing people out over how fast they can hit a send button at the proper time on the proper date. Most of our shooting friends do not have professional jobs where they can take a break at a certain time in the evening and have internet access. There are still plenty of shooters who do not have internet access at all. Another poster stated that it was not "fair" to send out automatic invitations to those who shot last year. That is an interesting suggestion. I have never heard of a sports team give the same chance to buy playoff tickets or next year's season tickets to the general population that it gives to season ticket holders. If the desire of the match promoter is to fill the match, it would seem that the best way to do that is to make sure the shooters who are more likely to attend as evidenced by their past attendance are given the first chance to return. Yes you could say that your going to return the top 75 shooters to the match with an automatic invitation but that would assume that a shooter who finished 45th is more valuable to the match than a shooter who completed the match last year in the 145th position. That is just not true especially when you take into consideration other subjective factors such as did the shooter who finished closer to the bottom assist other shooters or promote the match or any other factors. Since there is no way to really judge this, why would we want to send a message to competitors that this or any other match "belongs" to those that finish stronger than others? If this registration method made it easier on the person conducting the registration to establish match data bases to administer the match that would possibly be some reason to utilize this method. From my past discussions it is my information that not only does the match have to manually enter the information into the match data base after registration is accomplished, they spend hours wiping out duplicate entries which result from hopeful shooters hitting send more than once and having others send in a registration for them all in the hope that they get an entry into the server in the magic 3 seconds before registration ends. I am not really attacking the registration process. All I want to do is shoot and have a good time so I will sit by my computer like I did last year and await the proper time to hit send and hope there is no power outage or failed internet connection or other problem along the path from my computer to the server to the web back to the registration server that causes my registration to arrive a nano second too late. But I also know that we ran matches for years without out registration being conducted this way and we never had a discouraging word about whether or not the way it was done was "fair". In the great scheme of things, the way this match registers may be a solution looking for a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If you want to shoot pro you need to be sitting on go when registration opens. I do not think AM ever filled last year. It has never been clear to me why anyone needs to do registration in this manner. Sounds like a whole other topic but I would like to hear your thoughts as it is a bit of a problem that is only going to get worse as the sport grows in popularity. I just fail to see the need for stressing people out over how fast they can hit a send button at the proper time on the proper date. Most of our shooting friends do not have professional jobs where they can take a break at a certain time in the evening and have internet access. There are still plenty of shooters who do not have internet access at all. Another poster stated that it was not "fair" to send out automatic invitations to those who shot last year. That is an interesting suggestion. I have never heard of a sports team give the same chance to buy playoff tickets or next year's season tickets to the general population that it gives to season ticket holders. If the desire of the match promoter is to fill the match, it would seem that the best way to do that is to make sure the shooters who are more likely to attend as evidenced by their past attendance are given the first chance to return. Yes you could say that your going to return the top 75 shooters to the match with an automatic invitation but that would assume that a shooter who finished 45th is more valuable to the match than a shooter who completed the match last year in the 145th position. That is just not true especially when you take into consideration other subjective factors such as did the shooter who finished closer to the bottom assist other shooters or promote the match or any other factors. Since there is no way to really judge this, why would we want to send a message to competitors that this or any other match "belongs" to those that finish stronger than others? If this registration method made it easier on the person conducting the registration to establish match data bases to administer the match that would possibly be some reason to utilize this method. From my past discussions it is my information that not only does the match have to manually enter the information into the match data base after registration is accomplished, they spend hours wiping out duplicate entries which result from hopeful shooters hitting send more than once and having others send in a registration for them all in the hope that they get an entry into the server in the magic 3 seconds before registration ends. I am not really attacking the registration process. All I want to do is shoot and have a good time so I will sit by my computer like I did last year and await the proper time to hit send and hope there is no power outage or failed internet connection or other problem along the path from my computer to the server to the web back to the registration server that causes my registration to arrive a nano second too late. But I also know that we ran matches for years without out registration being conducted this way and we never had a discouraging word about whether or not the way it was done was "fair". In the great scheme of things, the way this match registers may be a solution looking for a problem. I can agree with what you say here but u left out how it should be done? Mail in the apps? Draw names from a hat? As brilliant as I am I cant think of a better way. Lol! Rocky Mountain seems to be the most fair and least stressfull. I wouldnt be opposed to the top X shooters getting an invite for the simple fat that it is a competition with fees and prizes. everyone should want the Top shooters at the matches unless your the guy that always finishes second or third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babob Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The Blue Ridge Mt. 3 Gun allowed two weeks for previous shooters to get in their apps before accepting new ones. That method may be something to consider. I was lucky enough to get an AM spot last year and finished in the top 20. Due to the August ProAm, My daughter's Sept. wedding, IDPA Nationals in Sept., and finally in Oct. the BRM3G, I need to shoot AM again just to keep within the budget with all those matchs going on within a three month period. Besides I'm sure the guys I shot with last year will shoot AM again and our squad had a great time together. I've already planned vacation for the ProAm so I sure as hell hope that my internet connection / power..etc are working good and Murphy stays away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 If it were up to me, and its not, and the goal is to fill the match I would send out an email with an application to last years shooters and give them two weeks to send in their registration with entry fee. This eliminates a ton of stress for the shooters and all of the deleting of duplicate entries for the person doing registration. It also gives real notice of the match to all of those shooters who do not live on this or any other forum. I would then post the match registration form on the website to any new shooters and it would be first come, first served. Again, no stress on either the shooters or the registrar. I agree that it makes a match have more clout if the top shooters are there but the group is smaller for 3 gun than for pistol. While this group will grow as the sport grows, are you going to lock out the shooters who are not in the top 20, 30, 50 simply because you do not need them? Finally keep in mind that past performance is no guarantee of a strong finish this year. If the goal is to attract top shooters, it would seem that they might not want to be involved with a match where in order to attend they are forced to stand by a computer at a certain date and time and hit "send" at the proper date and time. They know they are welcome at most matches and it boils down to all other things being equal, they are going to attend the matches where registration is easier. As a match put on by a private provider as opposed to one set up by USPSA which has a policy for who can attend a nationals, the goal is to fill the match. As long as the match is full it is less material who those shooters are. But we know from experience that your always going to have plenty of the gifted shooters present and let us not forget that any match that is in that much demand is furnishing a large number of slots to sponsors who have top dogs to shoot for them. Again, I am not complaining. If someone wants to do all of the extra work required to register shooters in a way that adds nothing to achieve any goal, who am I to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) I don't think there is an easy answer: As an AM shooter last year who should make the cut by most cutoff scores I like the idea. If I did not make the cut I wouldn't be too happy. If I were a new shooter I would not be happy if previous shooters were given head of line, but I would accept this as I value loyalty. If I were a "TOP" shooter and I had to rely on the luck of a mouse click I would not be happy. I'm thinking the top 10-20 get in without clicking the mouse at the appropriate time and I'm OK with that, they have earned it in my book. Any first come first served system has its problems, internet access, speed and the atomic clock time. Mail is even worse; using the mail is the same as random draw. The answer is easy: just hold every match with the same stages 2 or three times so everyone that wants to shoot gets to. I think the big organizations/players, Rockcastle for instance, will make it a business decision; fewer matches=higher entry fees or more matches lower entry fees. I would see it as a pure business decision for them as to which generates more income. If things grow enough maybe MD and other positions would be paid positions at these larger matches? David E. Edited January 15, 2012 by Nuke8401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 If things grow enough maybe MD and other positions would be paid positions at these larger matches? David E. Exactly. If it is every going to happen we might see that at Rockcastle first since with all of the 3 gun, cowboy, sporting clays, pistol, etc shooting they can offer a full time MD might be attractive to them. For a MD to be able to be paid at any other match, sponsors are going to have to step up with some money either in addition to or instead of prizes. Match organizers have thought for years that they would never get sponsors to do that but the 3GN has shown otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SERVED_USMC Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Someone fill me in, if you could. You can register as Pro or AM regardless of your ability? The same divisions are available in both AM and Pro? Someone mentioned wanting to shoot AM so they could leave on Sunday. Do Pro shooters' schedule differ from the AM guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Last year, AM finished Sat evening with 7 seven stages while PRO shot 8 stages and finished on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SERVED_USMC Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So Pro shoots one more stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 So Pro shoots one more stage? They did last year. I'm assuming the same for this years match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SERVED_USMC Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I would assume its a,longer, long range stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Someone fill me in, if you could. You can register as Pro or AM regardless of your ability? The same divisions are available in both AM and Pro? Someone mentioned wanting to shoot AM so they could leave on Sunday. Do Pro shooters' schedule differ from the AM guys? Last year and this year anyone can register for either Pro or AM regardless of ability. This year the same divisions are available in both AM and Pro. Last year AM was tactical only. Last year the schedules were different for Pro and AM shooters even thought they shot different stages. Last year the AM stages were set up like the Pro stage it mirrored but a little less difficult. There was a suggestion last year to let them both shoot the same stages but to give the AM shooters more time before they timed out but I am not sure this is feasible given the number of shooters. So to respond to your last question, I do not know what the stage count and shooting schedule will be for Pro and Am this year since to the best of my knowledge they have not yet released it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zukeep Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I worked the long range am stage. There were MGM flashers at 140 to about 200, and a great big steel plate at about 240. (MGM flasher is 10" wide x 15" tall)There was also a MGM loli-pop at about 50 yards. I blew the entire match on that stage. -First stage of the day. -The sun was in my eyes. -My front sight clamp screw had backed out and was touching the stupid prop on the back of the car throwing off my shots. -Can't think of anything else right now but I'm sure I had other excuses at the time. At least when I was done crashing Bryan pointed out my loose front sight problem. Pro next year, can't wait. David E. Almost the same here, Bryan had to point out that my muzzle brake was against the 2x4 port. Man you should have seen the wood fly in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zukeep Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I worked the long range am stage. There were MGM flashers at 140 to about 200, and a great big steel plate at about 240. (MGM flasher is 10" wide x 15" tall)There was also a MGM loli-pop at about 50 yards. I blew the entire match on that stage. -First stage of the day. -The sun was in my eyes. -My front sight clamp screw had backed out and was touching the stupid prop on the back of the car throwing off my shots. -Can't think of anything else right now but I'm sure I had other excuses at the time. At least when I was done crashing Bryan pointed out my loose front sight problem. Pro next year, can't wait. David E. Almost the same here, Bryan had to point out that my muzzle brake was against the 2x4 port. Man you should have seen the wood fly in the video. Oh yeah, then I timed out and let the pistol targets go unharmed. All after warning my squad not to get hung up on the rifle targets!!! Ah, the best laid plans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 what i liked about AM you had time to do all the side matchs and some more than once. as i understand it the pro did not free time, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterready Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Everyone had free time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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