RocketCity1911 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Been having issues with leaving (or trying to leave) a shooting position and either firing only one shot at a target that requires two shots or firing that last shot without calling the shot. In this stage, I had a good plan, walked through it and mentally rehearsed it many times. I took plenty of deep breaths, cleared my mind, and let go of the tension leading up to the buzzer. On the 4th target into the stage I fired the first shot and began going to the next target before catching my mistake and going back to target 4 to re-engage. On the stage prior to this one, I had done something similar, but didn't catch myself and ate a Mike for it. Any advice on what I can do or what the root cause might be? Obviously, slowing down, calling all shots, and/or more practice are a given. But, I'm curious if there is more to it than just the basics. I've been trying to account for throttle control in my stage planning for the difficult targets, but it seems like the "no brainer" shot is haunting me. Thank you in advance for any advice, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kali Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 As Brian would say, "shoot in the present tense". It seems like you are thinking about what your next move is going to be, instead of taking care of what's in front of you, "right now." Body and mind are out of sync. Body is in the present and the mind is thinking of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 As Brian would say, "shoot in the present tense". It seems like you are thinking about what your next move is going to be, instead of taking care of what's in front of you, "right now." Body and mind are out of sync. Body is in the present and the mind is thinking of the future. Right. Wherever you are be all there. One trick that can help with follow-through is to take an extra sight picture. This is especially helpful in dry-fire...since it is so easy to cheat yourself in dry-fire and plow right through the follow through. (this help build a mindset of visual focus) The other thing is to just REALLY build your visualization plan around following through better, especially on the last target in an array/position/prior to a reload/etc. A "good plan" and mental rehearsal will include good follow-through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've been trying to account for throttle control in my stage planning for the difficult targets, but it seems like the "no brainer" shot is haunting me. The no brainer shot is haunting you because you aren't really making the shot. Your brain is focused on the throttle, when it needs to be focused on looking out the windshield. Any advice on what I can do or what the root cause might be? The root cause is a focus on the wrong ONE thing. In this case (and most) it is a speed focus. Make the ONE thing a VISION focus!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 BTW...I take it you've been working on movement lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 One of the things I do after the walkthrough is to close my eyes and visualize the stage plan: Seeing each target, and firing two rounds per paper, one per steel, reloads, movement, everything in perfect order..... Then when I've got that down, the actual stage kinda takes care of itself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCity1911 Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 As Brian would say, "shoot in the present tense". It seems like you are thinking about what your next move is going to be, instead of taking care of what's in front of you, "right now." Body and mind are out of sync. Body is in the present and the mind is thinking of the future. Right. Wherever you are be all there. One trick that can help with follow-through is to take an extra sight picture. This is especially helpful in dry-fire...since it is so easy to cheat yourself in dry-fire and plow right through the follow through. (this help build a mindset of visual focus) The other thing is to just REALLY build your visualization plan around following through better, especially on the last target in an array/position/prior to a reload/etc. A "good plan" and mental rehearsal will include good follow-through. I like the idea of including follow-through in my planning & visualization. I think I've been glossing over that somewhat and focussing more on how I can move efficiently through the stage. I've been trying to account for throttle control in my stage planning for the difficult targets, but it seems like the "no brainer" shot is haunting me. The no brainer shot is haunting you because you aren't really making the shot. Your brain is focused on the throttle, when it needs to be focused on looking out the windshield. Any advice on what I can do or what the root cause might be? The root cause is a focus on the wrong ONE thing. In this case (and most) it is a speed focus. Make the ONE thing a VISION focus!!! How can I force that to happen? Would you suggest "A" zone only sight pictures until I'm confident that my brain is synched with my body? BTW...I take it you've been working on movement lately? Trying to work on efficient movement and getting to the optimal shooting locations in a stage. That part is mostly for stage planning/visualization. As for shooting on the move, definitely need more practice as I tend have more Mikes doing that as well. Great advice guys. This is the type of info I was looking for. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronEqualizer Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) The root cause is a focus on the wrong ONE thing. In this case (and most) it is a speed focus. Make the ONE thing a VISION focus!!! I really like that. This phrase is something I will remember. Make the ONE thing a VISION focus!!! Especially because I know I can see faster than my body can ever react. So seeing everything happen as it should, should be my focus. Seeing the sight lift on every target, seeing the dot inside my magwell on every reload, seeing every A zone before the gun gets there, seeing my next foot position, etc. In the past when I am really visual and seeing what I need to see, everything feels like it is happening very slowly, but the timer will say otherwise. My best runs have always felt slow to me in my mind while I am shooting. Edited October 13, 2011 by IronEqualizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 How can I force that to happen? Would you suggest "A" zone only sight pictures until I'm confident that my brain is synched with my body? Certainly, while doing the walkthrough and visualization you want to place your focus on the specific spot in the A-zone that you want to hit -- and then plan your transitions from one "aiming spot" to another..... To put that aiming spot thing in perspective: The A-zone on an open target is about 66 square inches. So where do you aim? To answer that look at hardcovered targets: My aiming point is high in the A-zone, centered -- that way it works for virtually all targets, from wide open to hardcovered horizontally, vertically, or diagonally,or partly covered by a no-shoot.... On steel too, my aiming spot is high in the circle (top 1/3?) and centered. So I'm not just transitioning from one A-zone or popper face to another, I'm transitioning from one small spot to another.... Aim small, miss small..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I have the same problem. Not enough visual patience/follow through. It's usually seen in the last shot from a position or the last shot before a reload on a standards or classifier. In fact, check out this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCity1911 Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) I bought Saul Kirsch's Master Class II video, which covers among other things entry/exit of positions. Saul gave an excellent breakdown of how that should work. He talked about shifting your center of gravity while keeping your feet planted and then firing the last shot just before your momentum carries you out of the position. He had the class practicing the technique a number of times. That gave me the idea that I should probably spend some time working on it in practice as well as putting more thought about it in my stage prep. I was aware of the technique, but seeing it broke down and learning from Saul's critique of his students was a big help. It's possible that at times I have come up with a stage plan and burned it in before really factoring in the nuances of how I should enter/exit positions to maximize efficiency/minimize dangerous shots. Anyway, Master Class II is certainly worth the $ in my opinion (and no, I don't have any relationship with Saul or Double Alpha). For that matter, I also like Matt Burkett's videos too. Edited October 21, 2011 by RocketCity1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Bring the concept of establishing "Key Targets" into your walkthrough and mental rehersal. For every KT: You will mentally pause and shoot and call a center hit. The first shot is always a KT; as is every last shot before you leave a position. BE there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus DUX Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) That was one of best advises I've heard in a long time. And new to me too. Never thought about it that way. Thanks BE Edited October 22, 2011 by Magnus DUX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I guess I have been doing that to a limited extent, on activating poppers is one good example, but I never thought of applying it this way.excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I have used the KT priciple myself (without calling it that) to great effect. But I have a rhetorical question for BE... Why wouldn't they all be key targets? I think I know the answer but would rather hear yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Bring the concept of establishing "Key Targets" into your walkthrough and mental rehersal. For every KT: You will mentally pause and shoot and call a center hit. The first shot is always a KT; as is every last shot before you leave a position. BE there. I have this problem as well and... Wow! That's a great idea. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have used the KT priciple myself (without calling it that) to great effect. But I have a rhetorical question for BE... Why wouldn't they all be key targets? I was waiting for that. Of course, in the nice little world of theory, every target is a key target. But in the grueling reality of competition, things don't always go as planned. So the KT progamming technique is a way of "extra planning." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCity1911 Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 I have used the KT priciple myself (without calling it that) to great effect. But I have a rhetorical question for BE... Why wouldn't they all be key targets? I was waiting for that. Of course, in the nice little world of theory, every target is a key target. But in the grueling reality of competition, things don't always go as planned. So the KT progamming technique is a way of "extra planning." It sounds easier than it is to implement. I still find myself taking "easy" targets for granted. Guess I have too much of a speed focus. But, I am trying to apply the KT princple. Mr. Anderson, do you have any drills to help with this? I have both of your books and have gotten a lot out of them Maybe you can provide a bonus drill here that will help us speed focussed shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I have used the KT priciple myself (without calling it that) to great effect. But I have a rhetorical question for BE... Why wouldn't they all be key targets? I was waiting for that. Of course, in the nice little world of theory, every target is a key target. But in the grueling reality of competition, things don't always go as planned. So the KT progamming technique is a way of "extra planning." It sounds easier than it is to implement. I still find myself taking "easy" targets for granted. Guess I have too much of a speed focus. That is a "problem" that was always there for me, even after 20 years of (not really) "learning," that speed is an illusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 It's hard not to judge something as either fast or slow. It's really hard to see it as it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 That is a "problem" that was always there for me, even after 20 years of (not really) "learning," that speed is an illusion. I don't want to derail the thread but how is speed an illusion? I don't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Trying to go fast is the problem. So I meant it as an illusion in that you cannot shoot all A's any faster than you can shoot them. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Another way to look at it is, you can only shoot as fast as you can shoot. If you can shoot A's on a 7m target as fast as you can humanly pull the trigger, you can't shoot any faster if the target is only 3m away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Another way to look at it is, you can only shoot as fast as you can shoot. If you can shoot A's on a 7m target as fast as you can humanly pull the trigger, you can't shoot any faster if the target is only 3m away Exactly. But it's awfully easy to try to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I have the same problem with prematurely....oh wait...that's something completely different....ah....never mind. Grunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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