Help! Brass from Minor handloads not extracting from Glock 35 .40

[SirLoin]

Hi guys,

I’ve recently loaded some .40 Minor rounds for my G35, and I’m having extractor problems, specifically:

1) the brass isn’t being extracted (link to a video that shows this:

)

2) almost all the brass have this dark carbon mark on one side (link to a video that shows this:

)

These are the specs of this latest batch of handloads, and all of them just aren’t extracting properly:

- 155-grain Berrys flat-point double-struck, 3.7 grains of Titegroup, OAL 1.125, CCI primer, ~132 power factor

- 165-grain Berrys flat-point double-struck, 3.5 grains of Titegroup, OAL 1.125, CCI primer, ~133 power factor

- 180-grain Berrys flat-point double-struck, 3.1 grains of Titegroup, OAL 1.125, CCI primer, ~130 power factor

I have a G35 that’s all OEM except for the Vanek Trigger Kit and a 13-pound ISMI spring which I use for Minor loads.

Has this happened to you before? Any ideas on what’s causing these and how to fix the issues? The brass not extracting/ejecting is the main problem I can’t figure out (I’m not too fussed about the carbon thing, though I suspect it might be a symptom of what’s causing the extraction/ejection problem.)

I’ve thought of the following potential diagnoses for why the brass from this recent batch isn’t extracting, followed by why I think it’s not the cause:

1) Recoil spring is too light: Until now, I have never had any ejection/extractor problems with ~130 power factor loads with my 13-pound ISMI recoil spring that’s only a few months old. I even shot ~20 rounds of Atlanta Armos Minor ~130 PF ammo right after the problems above, and they extracted/ejected without any problems. If I use the 15-pound ISMI spring with 130 PF loads, I have extractor problems ~5% of the time. If I use the stock recoil spring (17 pounds), I have extractor problems ~10% of the time. But with this latest batch, over 90% of what I fired didn’t extract using a 13 pound spring, so I don’t think it’s the recoil spring.

2) Extractor is damaged: It doesn’t look damaged/chipped/bent. It also didn’t exhibit any problems extracting the Atlanta Arms Minor ammo. After shooting the Atlanta Arms Minor ammo, I even shot ~300 rounds of 150 PF ammo using a 13-pound ISMI spring, 15-pound ISMI spring, and the stock recoil spring -- all with no extractor / ejection problems.

3) Ejector port is screwy: I don’t think so for the reasons mentioned in 2)

The only thing different is the handloads, so I’m thinking it’s the handloads. If it is the handload, what could be causing it?

-The OAL? It’s 1.125, which is supposed to be an okay length. Also, from what I’ve read on these forums, the OAL would affect the feeding, not the extracting – and the ammo seems to feed okay.

-The bullets? I’m using Berrys plated flat-points – the same ones that Atlanta Arms use, and I haven’t had problems with their ammo.

Help! I’d appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

[Tattoo]

When I shot .40 minor I used 3.6gr of Titegroup w/ 180gr at 1.125". Stock spring. I think your loads are too light.

T

[lugnut]

I don't think it's either of the 3 you mentioned. Do you case gauge the ammo? If they are tight in the chamber it will slow down the cycling of the slide and cause this.

[SirLoin]

Hi Tattoo,

Thanks for the feedback.

If it is the recoil spring being too light, then I'm thinking that the only way for that to happen would be if the following were true:

1) The Atlanta Arms 130 PF ammo I bought was chronoed by Atlanta Arms to be 130 PF when shot out of a shorter barrel than the 5.25-inch of my G35

2) When shot out of my G35's longer barrel, the Atlanta Arms ammo chronos at a higher power factor -- say, 140 or 150 PF

3) The 13-pound spring I use can cycle the 140-150 PF loads but is too weak to cycle the 130 PF loads that I chronoed out of my barrel

I wasn't leaning towards this possibility since I had read other guys on these Forums use 13-pound springs with their G35s and 130 PF loads without problems. If a 13-pound spring is so weak that it won't cycle 90+% of my 130 PF rounds, then that means 13 pounds is SUPER weak, and I'd have to drop down to 9-10 pounds to fix this problem. When I trawled these Forums, I read of only one G35 owner who used an 11-pound spring (the lowest spring that I've found on websites that sell ISMI/Wolff springs for Glocks) -- and others were telling him that that was too weak already.

With all this being said, I'm open to this possibility, so I'll go buy an 11-pound spring if nothing else works.

Cheers.

When I shot .40 minor I used 3.6gr of Titegroup w/ 180gr at 1.125". Stock spring. I think your loads are too light.

T

[SirLoin]

Hi Lugnut,

Appreciate the input.

Nope, I didn't/don't cause gauge this latest batch of ammo. I didn't experience any feeding problems -- the rounds chambered easily enough whenever I racked the slide -- so I didn't think that was the problem. I see what you're saying though, and it's possible that they are tight and that a fully-racked slide/spring is only barely able to feed my ammo, and after firing, the brass expands/bulges to the point that it gets jammed in tight in the chamber.

I'll go case gauge my ammo later today and let you know if they're tight in the chamber.

Thanks!

I don't think it's either of the 3 you mentioned. Do you case gauge the ammo? If they are tight in the chamber it will slow down the cycling of the slide and cause this.

[Tattoo]

Sirloin,

Put your factory spring back in the gun and load up some hotter loads. Do you actually have a chrono?

If you start with a 180gr at 4.0gr and then try 3.8, then 3.6 and see if they work with everything stock.

Trust me it will.

T

[JimmyZip]

This ammo is loaded too light. Light loads get this carbon on the side of the casing because the case isn't sealed at the mouth as well with the lighter pressure produced with the anemic loads. This is also the reason your rounds are not EJECTING! They ARE EXTRACTING! You can see that in the video. If not, they wouldn't exit the chamber at all. You would get no stovepipes at all, just the round stuck in the chamber. Bump your loads until the gun cycles properly, and that is your base load for the way the gun is set up. OR.. lighten your spring and accept the carbon on the side of the casing.

JZ

[SirLoin]

Hi Tattoo,

Yep, we borrowed a chrono and have been using it to chrono our loads.

There's no problem when I use hotter loads, whether I use the stock spring or 13/15 pound springs. However, Minor loads don't cycle with the stock spring -- and I prefer to shoot Minor for IDPA matches.

S

Sirloin,

Put your factory spring back in the gun and load up some hotter loads. Do you actually have a chrono?

If you start with a 180gr at 4.0gr and then try 3.8, then 3.6 and see if they work with everything stock.

Trust me it will.

T

[SirLoin]

Hi JZ,

Thanks for the advice.

Your explanation makes sense. It does sound like my spring's too light for this load. I'll go ahead and order a lighter spring. Hopefully, it'll fix the problem. I'll let you know if it works.

Cheers.

This ammo is loaded too light. Light loads get this carbon on the side of the casing because the case isn't sealed at the mouth as well with the lighter pressure produced with the anemic loads. This is also the reason your rounds are not EJECTING! They ARE EXTRACTING! You can see that in the video. If not, they wouldn't exit the chamber at all. You would get no stovepipes at all, just the round stuck in the chamber. Bump your loads until the gun cycles properly, and that is your base load for the way the gun is set up. OR.. lighten your spring and accept the carbon on the side of the casing.

JZ

[SirLoin]

Hi Lugnut,

Just finished case gauging the ammo, and they're not tight -- they drop in and leave as much space as my other ammo. I'm leaning towards getting a 9, 10 or an 11 pound spring now, in case that might fix the problem.

Thanks again for the suggestion.

Hi Lugnut,

Appreciate the input.

Nope, I didn't/don't cause gauge this latest batch of ammo. I didn't experience any feeding problems -- the rounds chambered easily enough whenever I racked the slide -- so I didn't think that was the problem. I see what you're saying though, and it's possible that they are tight and that a fully-racked slide/spring is only barely able to feed my ammo, and after firing, the brass expands/bulges to the point that it gets jammed in tight in the chamber.

I'll go case gauge my ammo later today and let you know if they're tight in the chamber.

Thanks!

I don't think it's either of the 3 you mentioned. Do you case gauge the ammo? If they are tight in the chamber it will slow down the cycling of the slide and cause this.

[twodownzero]

It looks to me that it's extracting just fine. It's ejection that seems to be the problem.

130 PF is also pretty weak for a .40 load. I'd crank it up a bit from there. Even 9mm hardly runs at 130.

Edited October 3, 2011 by twodownzero

[legacy]

It looks to me that it's extracting just fine. It's ejection that seems to be the problem.

130 PF is also pretty weak for a .40 load. I'd crank it up a bit from there. Even 9mm hardly runs at 130.

x2

I shoot .40 minor with my G22 in production and keep my power factor around 135.

3.0G of Clays @ 1.135 w/ a 13lbs ismi spring

[waktasz]

How does the ejector look? Could the tip be broken off?

[mitchiepinoy]

i accidentally load 3.5 titegroup on my 180 bayous bullets and my recoil spring is the BLUE glockworx w/c is 12lbs... its runs smooth and flat and we i shoot 4.7 it turns a lil bit snappy but never had a problem like yours.. everytime i load my bullets i take out my barrel and do the chamber check... but 3.1 on 180 is too low... the lighter the bullets heads the more powder u need to put in...

[kevin c]

I agree with Jimmy Zip on the carbon outside the case; there isn't enough pressure to expand and seal the case out against the chamber, so the gas leaks back from the case mouth (your ballistics phrase of the day is: "lack of obturation").

No less a luminary than our very own Flexmoney has observed that Glocks like 135 PF, and I find that true even when the gun is lightly sprung.

If you do go to a lighter recoil spring, be careful that the striker spring is also lightened. Since the two work in opposition to each other, a stock striker spring may overcome the light recoil spring and bring the slide out of battery as the trigger is pulled.

[SirLoin]

Hi Waktaz,

The extractor looks fine - no chipping, no damage. It spits out other brass without problems.

Thanks.

How does the ejector look? Could the tip be broken off?

[Duane Thomas]

If you do go to a lighter recoil spring, be careful that the striker spring is also lightened. Since the two work in opposition to each other, a stock striker spring may overcome the light recoil spring and bring the slide out of battery as the trigger is pulled.

No offense, but this is one of those things that a lot of people "know" to be true that ain't necessarily. I've run a stock firing pin spring with an ISMI 13-pound recoil spring in the past, and am currently doing so right now, as a matter of fact, with no problems.

[Duane Thomas]

Jet, obviously your load is too light for your recoil spring. You have two choices: either drop spring weight or bump the load. In your place I'd bump the load but that's just me.

[SirLoin]

Hi twodownzero, legacy, mitchiepinoy, Kevin, and Duane,

Thanks everyone, for all the advice!

I had been shooting the Atlanta Arms .40 Minor ammo for IDPA matches over the past three months, and I always assumed it was 130 PF out of my G35 since they said it was 130 PF -- without considering that it's probably 140+ PF out of my G35 and 130 PF for shorter barrels. So, when I decided to make some soft loads for IDPA purposes and was able to get a chrono, I made some 130 PF loads and encountered this ejection problem -- and prematurely discounted that the cause of the problem was the recoil spring being too strong, thinking that if 130 PF Atlanta Arms ammo ejected fine, then the recoil spring couldn’t be the problem. After reassessing everything / everyone’s input, it has to be the 13-lb recoil spring being too strong for the 130 PF loads I made. (I stopped shooting from 15 years ago to a few months ago, so I'm going to blame old age for this brain fart.)

I'll go ahead and plop in an 11-lb spring once it arrives and jack up my loads to 135 PF. I’ll let you guys know what happens.

Interestingly enough, I’ve been looking for a reason to drop in a lighter striker spring (I had taken it out since I was getting light strikes with some lousy primers before), so I’ll probably do that now since the 11-lb recoil spring may tolerate it more than my 13-pounder.

Cheers!

It looks to me that it's extracting just fine. It's ejection that seems to be the problem.

130 PF is also pretty weak for a .40 load. I'd crank it up a bit from there. Even 9mm hardly runs at 130.

It looks to me that it's extracting just fine. It's ejection that seems to be the problem.

130 PF is also pretty weak for a .40 load. I'd crank it up a bit from there. Even 9mm hardly runs at 130.

x2

I shoot .40 minor with my G22 in production and keep my power factor around 135.

3.0G of Clays @ 1.135 w/ a 13lbs ismi spring

i accidentally load 3.5 titegroup on my 180 bayous bullets and my recoil spring is the BLUE glockworx w/c is 12lbs... its runs smooth and flat and we i shoot 4.7 it turns a lil bit snappy but never had a problem like yours.. everytime i load my bullets i take out my barrel and do the chamber check... but 3.1 on 180 is too low... the lighter the bullets heads the more powder u need to put in...

I agree with Jimmy Zip on the carbon outside the case; there isn't enough pressure to expand and seal the case out against the chamber, so the gas leaks back from the case mouth (your ballistics phrase of the day is: "lack of obturation").

No less a luminary than our very own Flexmoney has observed that Glocks like 135 PF, and I find that true even when the gun is lightly sprung.

If you do go to a lighter recoil spring, be careful that the striker spring is also lightened. Since the two work in opposition to each other, a stock striker spring may overcome the light recoil spring and bring the slide out of battery as the trigger is pulled.

Jet, obviously your load is too light for your recoil spring. You have two choices: either drop spring weight or bump the load. In your place I'd bump the load but that's just me.

Edited October 3, 2011 by SirLoin

[twodownzero]

Hi Waktaz,

The extractor looks fine - no chipping, no damage. It spits out other brass without problems.

Thanks.

How does the ejector look? Could the tip be broken off?

Please read what we've told you again. EJECTOR EJECTOR E-J-E-C-T-O-R

[SirLoin]

Sorry! I meant EJECTOR. No chipping off, no damage.

Lol.

Hi Waktaz,

The extractor looks fine - no chipping, no damage. It spits out other brass without problems.

Thanks.

How does the ejector look? Could the tip be broken off?

Please read what we've told you again. EJECTOR EJECTOR E-J-E-C-T-O-R

[Duane Thomas]

After reassessing everything / everyone’s input, it has to be the 13-lb recoil spring being too weak for the 130 PF loads I made.

I assume you meant your recoil spring was too strong, not too weak, yes?

[SirLoin]

Yes! Thanks for the clarification.

Sorry for the typos, guys. I'm in the East Coast and am not that coherent at this hour...

After reassessing everything / everyone’s input, it has to be the 13-lb recoil spring being too weak for the 130 PF loads I made.

I assume you meant your recoil spring was too strong, not too weak, yes?

[Duane Thomas]

No problemo, bay-bee.

[JaeOne3345]

I experienced similar problems trying to chase mouse fart 147gr 9mm loads on my G34 a few months back. I use an 13 lb ISMI spring. I had the same issues you did until I bumped up the load. I was stuck on this mental thing of having to shoot a 125-130 PF round. Now I am not so stuck on the PF (as long as it passes) if it feels good and functions.

The 13 lb recoil spring is fine, but it's just that your loads were too weak, which you have gathered by now. I am not sure if I would go to an 11.

Edited October 3, 2011 by JaeOne3345