Jody Waring Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I just picked up a new CZ TS in .40 and am going to be reloading for it right away. I am a little concerned with OAL and reliable feeding. Also with the stories I have heard of separated cases, etc.. For the time being to help stay on the safe side of things I have opted to try a slightly slower powder with the 180gr bullets. Also, knowing the damage done by set-back of the bullet during feeding I am wondering what a case should measure after being crimped. Thanks in advance for any replies. Would Winchester super field be a decent powder in .40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 As I understand things, the common load formulas floating around for .40 S&W are targetted for S_I guns. These guns like to be loaded long (1.180" and longer) to feed reliably. For CZ's you'll want to stick with the SAAMI spec length of 1.135" maximum for reliable feeding. That means you can't just take any formula that meant to be loaded long and just decrease the OAL otherwise you'll face overpressure issues. You'll also have to also back off the powder charge and work a load up to get to your target power factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted September 29, 2011 Author Share Posted September 29, 2011 I checked the Hodgdon website and one load for a 180 hornady was 1.125" and my factory ammo I have measures 1.135" so I would assume going ahead with the 1.135 oal should be fine? There was a load listed using 5.4 gr of WSF. I wonder how this would work out, as I know many shooters prefer the faster powders and WSF is relatively slow. I am not scared to experiment, but would like to find a good starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Slight thread drift: I tried shooting Ramshot Silhouette under a 180gn bullet out of my EAA/Tanfoglio Match and Limited guns for about 6 months. Silhouette is slower than WSF. I loved the nice "push" feel of the load, as compared to the snap of faster powders. (I blame it for pushing me up to B class when I wasn't expecting it.) The reasons I changed from it though was: (1) I hated cleaning the "WAP crap" inside the gun. Silhouette is (supposedly) the same formula as the old Winchester Action Pistol. (2) Silhouette likes to be loaded for major otherwise it makes a nice light and sound show outside the barrel. This was forcing me to have pretty large powder charges since I was loading long. So back on topic: Hopefully somebody has a formula for you for WSF. With the slower powder, you can probably expect to have the same "push" feel vs. the "snap" typical for .40 loads. A tip I heard from a very experienced shooter/reloader is that if he couldn't find a recipe for .40 for a powder, he would start off with a 9mm load for the same powder and work his way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 I checked the Hodgdon website and one load for a 180 hornady was 1.125" and my factory ammo I have measures 1.135" so I would assume going ahead with the 1.135 oal should be fine? There was a load listed using 5.4 gr of WSF. I wonder how this would work out, as I know many shooters prefer the faster powders and WSF is relatively slow. I am not scared to experiment, but would like to find a good starting point. I think the 1.125" OAL in that recipe is also to account for the shape of the Hornady bullet. You want to make sure that the bullet isn't resting right against the rifling. I can't find the thread right now, but in the CZ forum there was a link to a very good procedure on determining the correct OAL for your pistol or rifle's chamber. As you probably know, CZ's rifling runs further back than most other pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 I will keep that in mind, I have had numerous issues with my Shadow and bullets contacting the rifling, and it was a tedious learning curve trying to get everything sorted out. I'll have to drop some rounds in my TS barrel to see what oal it likes. Thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMartens Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 The TS does like shorter lengths and it will handle all of the factory loads out there. The barrel and chamber on my TS will accept an OAL out to 1.200" but, that length is tight in the magazines and you cannot eject a loaded round because it will hang in the ejection port. That is the OAL limiter on my gun. It will not eject a loaded round over 1.155". It's a real problem if you can't ULSC. I've loaded 170 LSWC, 165 FP, 180 FP and 180 RNFP and they all feed and shoot accurately at 1.155" OAL. WSF is also a good powder for the TS. I load WSF with lead and plated bullets. I also load TG with plated and jacketed. That is just personal preference. I find TG and little softer and WSF is a little on the snappy side with 165 grain bullets. They are pretty comparable with 180 grain bullets of any flavor. WSF is a little less smokey with lead bullets. Set your crimp .001 to .002 less than the measurement of a loaded round just below the crimp. Not enough crimp will cause FTF. Just make sure that you have no sharp edge on the case mouth after crimping. Of course YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 My load for the TS I had was the Zero 180gr FN (flat nose) with 4.8gr of WST set at 1.140, with Federal SPP. This fits the mags and the gun. Another good powder is N320. I did not have any case seperations with thousands of rounds, but that is not to say that you should not retire brass before it gets excessively worn. I tried shooting Precison Moly bullets in the gun and that didn't work out, it fowled excessively. I would suggest that you try some 180gr BayouBullets, these have not fowled other guns that are fowled by BBI and other Moly coated bullets. These bullets will let you load a lighter charge of powder make velocity and reduce recoil. You can get just a sample of a 100 or 200 from Donnie to try. Don't even think about 200gr with a fast powder, been there done that, blew the top off a few, split a few and quit it. I also highly recommend the Redding GRX, this puts and end to fat brass, the U-die helps but its not cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I checked the Hodgdon website and one load for a 180 hornady was 1.125" and my factory ammo I have measures 1.135" so I would assume going ahead with the 1.135 oal should be fine? There was a load listed using 5.4 gr of WSF. I wonder how this would work out, as I know many shooters prefer the faster powders and WSF is relatively slow. I am not scared to experiment, but would like to find a good starting point. What is y our bullet profile? My TS likes factory length ammo. I'd try the Hodgdon sights recipes, that is where I started and I haven"t had any issues with their data. The 1.125 sounds good if the bullet profile is good. I run mine using moly coated Bear Creek or BBI 180gr profiles which have a flat tip and load them from 1.129 to 1.131 and the gun just runs. I use Solo 1000. I run 4.7gr. The recoil is not an issue with this load. Good luck. JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 What about the LEE bulge buster for .40? Anyone use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) Im loading a 180gr bayou, 4.9 gr Win231, OAL of 1.145, and a .42 crimp. This gives me an average PF of 172. If they get much over 1.155 oal, the gun locks up. Ive also worked up some with Ramshot Competition that didnt quite make pf but worked with these dimensions. Now, Im new to reloading and this is the first reloading Ive done ever, and Ive only put about 300 of it through my TS, so take it for what its worth. ETA, So far I've not had any issue with Glock brass. I'm using Dillon dies. Edited September 30, 2011 by SDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted September 30, 2011 Author Share Posted September 30, 2011 (edited) How do you like using 231? Is it very smoky? I am going to start off with Winchester super field but have a decent supply of 231 and have considered this as well. Have lots of titegroup but have been told to forget it with cast bullets as it is an instant smoke screen. Thanks everyone for the replies, I really appreciate it! Edited September 30, 2011 by Jody Waring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 I don't have a lot to compare it to, and I've not shot these rounds in a match yet, but there's nothing jumping out at me telling me "this is bad". I've not noticed the smoke in the little shooting I've done with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 Tried my load of 5.3 gr of WSF with an AIM (made in Canada) 180gr plated and they shot pretty good. I did find however the brass looked pretty dirty, and the overall feeling was quite snappy. I intend to shoot cast bullets as well, and would like to settle on one powder for both cast and jacketed, but would also like to soften up the recoil some. Would I be better off with Universal or WST? I am aware of the titegroup/cast bullet/smokescreen issue so i am not even considering it. Look forward to suggestions, imhave access to most Hidgdon and Winchester powders so those brands are what I would most likely be using. Or should I stick with the WSF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) I like WSF in my Glock 24. I load a 185 Precision Moly at 1.135 COAL over 4.8 grains of WSF in the stock barrel. I recently acquired a Lone Wolf barrel that I had the chamber reamed to fit those reloads. It shoots really well out of the aftermarket traditional rifled barrel, but I have loaded some ammo at 4.9, 5.0, 5.1 and 5.2 grains to run through the chrono. Edited October 9, 2011 by Biloxi23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenR Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I went to WST to cut down the amount of smoke that lead had with N320. Recoil felt similar with major PF. Tried some WSF for kicks and recoil felt heavier, so I prefer WST for .40 with 180 grain lead bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdlong1 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I have been shooting a CZ TS for almost a year now. I ran 155 gn or 180 gn Bayou bullets with n320. I used the SAAMI as well at 1.135 and had no issues. The barrel will take much longer OAL but the magazine will not. I ran some at 1.15 with no issues but did not see an advantage. I experimented thoroughly with different OAL's in that gun and frankly as long as the the bullet fit in the magazine they all loaded fine, including short OAL's (not that I recommed that - particularly at major PF). In fact after doing all this testing -- that takes months -- the main thing that I learned is that there is a lot of "over-thinking" in regards to OAL in 40.(I say that because to get 9mm major for example it can be critical) I think the 40 has plenty of room for powder (assuming you choose a medium burning powder)at many OAL's. And I could tell no real appreciable difference in feel at the same PF in even wide ranges in OAL. (if one considers the variables involved -- it really makes sense...change one variable one way the other must be changed the other way) Anyway -- for the CZ it is easy -- it loads reliably almost everything you can feed it assuming that the bullets fit in the mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManNamedJed Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 4.6g TG with MG 180gr JHP or Berry's FP at 1.13 works well in my TS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stavros Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 4.6g TG with MG 180gr JHP or Berry's FP at 1.13 works well in my TS. Ditto here. Very accurate. I use the zero jhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) I'm using 5.3gr 340 and MG 180s at 1.125, which is extremely accurate. Might have to add a little more powder since 165.1 (after 6 shots) at the MG Nationals was a little too close for comfort... Edited November 10, 2011 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbird1976 Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I load 6.6gr of Hodgdon Longshot under a 165gr bullet loaded to 1.125". It's a 171PF on my chrono, and it's been 174-75PF at all the majors I've been to. I decided to opt for the slower powder because I was concerned about pressure issues using faster burning powders. It seems to cycle the action just as fast as my old load and there is very little flip in my TS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Waring Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 I am concerned with high pressure as well, that's why I opted to try WSF. I find it interesting that you are using Longshot, I have lots of it as I use it in my open guns. Is the load fairly clean? I find it not to bad in open guns, but like a lot of slower powders I find it has to be loaded fairly hot to burn cleanly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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