D__ Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 My first pistol I ever bought years ago was an SP01. Old school style non Shadow or Target or Custom model. Slide has cuts in it for firing pin block apparatus but was bought new without a firing pin block installed from factory. Is this pistol legal to use in USPSA PD? Would be a shame to have buy a new pistol to participate in PD when I chose to compete on the States. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldchar Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Absolutely, Have a good time. No one is tearing guns apart. If you are really worried, bring with you some paperwork. Jim G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 True, no one is tearing guns apart, but all you need to do on the SP01 is lock the slide back ( like you do at Chrono when you hand the gun to the chrono man ), and turn it upside down and look at the back part of the slide that hangs past the frame and you'll see the hole where the FPB is supposed to be. I have an SP01(with FPB), and been through 6 majors, and no one has ever done that. So odds are you will be OK. Problem is if someone does check, it's going to be hard to convince them that your gun didn't come with a FPB when there is hole in the slide designed for that exact purpose. You could always buy the parts at CZ Custom, (FPB, FPB spring, and lifter) and install them before you come compete in the States. PITA, but you wouldn't have any worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D__ Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Dallas10:17 AM (11 hours ago) to dnroi Hello John, I have an old CZ SP01 that I bought when I first started shooting IPSC. It never came with a firing pin block from the factory but has the holes drilled into the slide to accept a block. Reading the USPSA Producition rules in Appendix D4 - it states that I cannot remove a firing pin block. What if my pistol never came with one? Curious as I want to be good to go for the USPSA PD nationals. Thanks. Dallas DNROI dnroi@uspsa.org 11:06 AM (10 hours ago) to me Dallas, If it didn’t come with one, there is no issue. John FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Awesome, now I bet there has NEVER been an SP-01 shipped to the US with a FPB installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D__ Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Well the rest of the world never got them - why would the states be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunguru Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Absolutely, Have a good time. No one is tearing guns apart. If you are really worried, bring with you some paperwork. Jim G It's not against you directly, it's more against the general thinking behind your answer. I really don't like the message sent, I mean: "Cheat as you will never get caught"... Small or big, going against the rule and knowing it is cheating, caught or not. And remember, the Onus is always to the competitor. So, if caught, it will be the competitor responsiblity to prove the gun was shipped without the FPB. If you read the USPSA guy answer with RO eyes, it's clear, It's ok to not have the FPB as long it's not come OEM with the gun. But you still have to prove your gun was shipped without the FPB, if you can't prove this, it will be assumed than you removed it. The onus is always to the competitor! IPSC 2012 rule book:6.2.3.1 If a competitor disagrees with an equipment compliance ruling, the onus is upon him, prior to him attempting any courses of fire, to provide evidence acceptable to the examiner in support of his claim. In the absence or rejection of such evidence, the original decision will stand, subject only to appeal to the Range Master, whose decision is final. I know it's different in USPSA, but the fact remain, the absence of FPB will be allowed if the gun was shippend without one, and it's the shooter onus to prove he didn't remove it... I refer you to app D4 , point 21. Please note that, during a match, a shooter may be required to demonstrate that their gun is in compliance with Division rules by identifying a specific rules clause or published interpretation which authorizes any disputed modification. If the shooter cannot identify an authorizing rules-clause or published interpretation, the RM shall rule that the modification is PROHIBITED for Production use and shall move the shooter to Open Division. Here the shooter will be able to show an interpretation, but it will be hard to prove the complying fact (absense of FPB from factory). My2c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 A letter from CZ indicating the serial number range that came without FPB would solve your problem completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunguru Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 all you need to do on the SP01 is lock the slide back ( like you do at Chrono when you hand the gun to the chrono man ), I have never, ever, locked a slide back to hand it to the chrono man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 With the slide locked back, it's very easy to see if the FPB is present or not. So if the Chrono officer flips your gun over to look for paint in the magwell, the missing FPB is also going to be visible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 all you need to do on the SP01 is lock the slide back ( like you do at Chrono when you hand the gun to the chrono man ), I have never, ever, locked a slide back to hand it to the chrono man. Couldn't tell you how many times I have been asked, but I know it's more than one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Dallas10:17 AM (11 hours ago) to dnroi Hello John, I have an old CZ SP01 that I bought when I first started shooting IPSC. It never came with a firing pin block from the factory but has the holes drilled into the slide to accept a block. Reading the USPSA Producition rules in Appendix D4 - it states that I cannot remove a firing pin block. What if my pistol never came with one? Curious as I want to be good to go for the USPSA PD nationals. Thanks. Dallas DNROI dnroi@uspsa.org 11:06 AM (10 hours ago) to me Dallas, If it didn’t come with one, there is no issue. John FYI Informal NROI responses to emails may not hold up, as they are not parto of the "official" venues that NROI uses for formal and binding pronouncements on the rule. Better to think of his response in the most conservative fashion, i.e.: "If it didn’t come with one, there is no issue [PROVIDED IT CAN PROVEN]." Much better to have the proof, or put in the block if you can't get it, than to shoot 10 round, minor PF, uncompensated and iron sighted pistol in Open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) If he gets bumped to open, he can bring out the 170mm mags, and shoot minor PF with his uncompensated, iron sights gun. He's not restricted to 10 rounds anymore. In a past thread, it was even opined that tacking on an optic would be legal if the RM allowed it. Basically you get a gun reconfiguration freebie when you get bumped to open. Edited August 10, 2012 by Skydiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 If he gets bumped to open, he can bring out the 170mm mags, and shoot minor PF with his uncompensated, iron sights gun. He's not restricted to 10 rounds anymore. In a past thread, it was even opined that tacking on an optic would be legal if the RM allowed it. Basically you get a gun reconfiguration freebie when you get bumped to open. Making magazine and sight changes might very well be allowed, but any stages already shot were done with ten rounds and iron sights. Also, I don't know a lot of Production shooters who keep a dot sight, mounting equipment, and 170 mm mags in their car, along with a supply of major PF ammo, "just in case" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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